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Welcome to another episode of White Coats of the Round Table. Today we have Mike Azbek and John McDonald. That's me and that's him. Coming at you today as a duo group, a few weeks back we were doing a couple solo episodes and had a guest side by ourselves. So this is our second episode back together after a little bit of a break and it's nice to talk again. But this is going to be a subject that's near and dear to my heart because I spent a lot of time and a lot of money on this subject. So today we're going to talk about how to write a modern resume. Is there something that we all stress about, especially when we're applying for positions that require changes in our resume and having to juggle all these different pipes and resumes and the stress behind that all. So I think today is going to be a great topic for anybody who is considering getting back into the marketplace for a job or currently working towards getting a new position. And we've talked a little bit about resumes in the past and you did a little bit more of the research regarding today but I got to say I feel like I'm an expert on this at this point. At least I paid for the expert position. So how many resumes do you think you have? Oh, actually maybe we shouldn't say that. You're not looking for a job right now Mike, right? Well no, but the topic is timely because I recently did have to update my resume. I mean, I always have a kind of ever evolving CV because when I do a lot of consulting work, they almost always will want an updated CV. So one of the things I think we can talk about this that has worked well for me is any time I have something new, I make sure that I just go in and add it so that I'm not, you know, every six months having to go in and try and remember new things I did or new things to add in. If there's a new talk that I give at a conference or something like that, I make sure I add it right away. But recently I did apply for a job which Dr. Capote if you're listening, I did not ever hear back from them. And it would have been a part time job. But I applied for a job that did require a significant reformat of my resume just because the role it was actually like a board position. So it was more of an administrative executive role. So it's this topic is timely. It's something that I've actually recently gone through. I know you've done a lot of it with your career coaching and, you know, just working through that. So I'm really fascinated to hear your end of it as we've talked about in the past just because career coaching is something that I'm always skeptically curious. So it'll be good to get your thoughts. But then also I think the timing of this is great because doing a little bit more career development in terms of the episodes for the next few weeks makes sense because we're in graduation season. So there's a whole bunch of people that are presumably just finishing up, you know, med school, PA school, residency. All of these other, you know, very rigorous healthcare training programs that are now starting to look for jobs if they haven't already. And how to write a good resume is really a key topic. If we're going to do that, I've already just in the past week had several former students reach out and asked me to take a look at their resume or to look at job offers that they've gotten. So it's definitely the season of life for healthcare where resume talk is good and appropriate. Can we start off with a story? Sure. Okay. I'll start off here. My last year of pharmacy school, I think my school did a really good job preparing us to have a functional CV from when we went into the workforce. It was part of a professional development course that we did. And we spent hours and hours cleaning it up and make especially the presentation portion of the CV. It was drilled into us that we need to have enough presentations to make a look like, you know, we do have expertise in these certain areas. Well, let's move forward a little bit because I had created my CV. I was working for a big box retailer and I wanted to get into clinical pharmacy and they got a great interview, showed up to this interview, one of the longest interviews of my life, hours. But I brought a few copies of my CV and Mike, I never had anybody to compare this to. Compare my CV to people were astounded at my CV. And I thought it was maybe a good thing. And I had probably eight interviews that day. And when I did, I ended up getting hired and when I went in, I found my CV in one of the cabinets of my office. Like, what the heck is this thing? I pulled out, I'm like, why is this here? And turns out that my CV had gotten around. It was the longest CV people had ever seen. It was like 15 pages. For a new grad. That's funny. 15 pages. I think I still have one. The amount of crap that was in that CV that had no bearing on this job was astounding to me. I had no point of reference for this. But it went down in history at this position because everybody knew about John's CV. So here, let me interject. Because I'm laughing. Because I think this is so funny. Because as a student, how many times have there been things where as a student, you think you are like hot stuff, you think you are doing everything. And now the passage of time and maybe wisdom of age, we look back on that stuff and we're like, oh my gosh. How dumb were we? I think maybe that's why this episode is so good in the sense of, there's a lot of times where we think we're doing things the right way, but we simply just don't know or don't understand. Yeah, it's the mystery of the resume slash CV. We all feel like we know what it should look like, but we feel as though we have nothing to compare it to. We don't have the other candidate CVs. We don't know what the benchmark is. So let's talk a bit about what a general CV looks like in the eyes of a professional, maybe resume writer or what our marketplace demands right now of our CVs. Sure. So let's give a little bit of an overview of the three areas. So we'll break it down into three different points. So first, let's talk about how to format the CV. Then we'll talk about what we should put in it as you were just saying. We don't necessarily need a new graduate CV to be 15 pages talking about how you were the president of your kindergarten class. And then we can also talk about keywords because I think that's an area that people maybe miss out on. And especially these days where almost every job you apply for is going to use some sort of computer-based screen air if you don't have the right keywords and your CV might not even get in front of a human person. So making sure that we're hitting on those. And then at the end, we can finish with maybe some of your and my tips and tricks on how to avoid common resume mistakes that we've identified just through our jobs, through our own experience. But let's start with format. So there's two different formats that we can use for a CV. And this is within the body of the CV where we're putting all of our relevant experience in one is chronological, meaning that we start with maybe reverse order. So we start with our most recent job and then work our way backwards. And the other format would be functional. So where you organize the CV based on skills or abilities rather than work history. I'd love to pause there and get your thoughts on a chronological versus a functional CV. Functional gives us the opportunity to format in such a way that it focuses only on what's relevant to the job that you're applying to and not putting information into that has nothing to do with what you're going for. For example, if say if I was going into pharma as a somebody in metaphairs, it probably wouldn't be helpful that I volunteered at a local community center to do brown bags. It's not really relevant to the position. Is it nice? Sure. Is it something that you can bring up in the interview as part of what you do in the community maybe? But it might not be the best thing if it's a volunteer paid position because it doesn't really have to do with metaphairs. So functional has been recommended to me to be the way to format these. But I don't think chronological is wrong. What are your thoughts? So I would say my thoughts on it is that I think they both serve a purpose if you are established in your career field. So let's say from a medicine perspective, you are an orthopedic surgeon and you are remaining an orthopedic surgeon and maybe applying for a job like you said, metaphairs or something in the device industry. I think a chronological CV makes sense because you've been in or though your skill set is in line with the job that you're pursuing. I think the functional format is really good if you maybe have gaps in your work history, if you're changing career so you're making a pivot or if you're a new graduate where you don't have a ton of relevant work experience in the field that you're aspiring to be in. Rather, you're looking to try and highlight your skills or abilities that would make you a good candidate to enter that industry. So I think both have a role. I personally have always done chronological but once again, almost all of my work is within psychiatry so I'm not necessarily jumping around or doing things that where I would maybe need to highlight more on skills and abilities as opposed to my relevant work experience. But I think they both serve a role. So I think this is a great segue maybe into the importance of tailoring your CV or your resume to the job that you're applying to because depending on the job, you maybe want to do a chronological and depending on the job, you may want to do a skills focused or a functional format. What are you currently using? Yeah, that's a really good point because chronological is probably best for those who are staying in the same positions because there's nothing to adjust. You've been doing the same thing along the same lines in the same work. So my, I've got a few other things. I've got a few different CDs. I've got these different ones depending on what I'm going into so you've made a great point. I do have chronological and I do have functional formats. You do both. Okay, I've got both depending on what I'm going to be submitting to. Excellent. So anything more that you want to talk about format wise or should we move on? Uh, I think the points that I'm going to bring out formatting will come up a little bit later. Okay, great. So let's transition and talk a little bit about content. going to be writing a chronological or a functional CV. So now we talked about four minutes of content. So when you're building your resume or your CV, obviously the most basic side of it, it should have your contact information, your education, your work experience, and then your skills and abilities. As we said earlier, you wanna make sure that you're always tailoring the resume to a specific job, highlighting the skills or experience that are most relevant to the position. So if you are in a clinical role and you're applying for another clinical role, then obviously you're gonna talk or focus heavily on your clinical skillset, your clinical experience. If you are in a clinical role, and maybe you are trying to pivot into medical writing or some other non-traditional career path, then you're gonna focus probably more on skillset. Your writing ability, things that you've written in the past, even if it was writing for a blog that's non-medical. I think contact information. I'd like to kind of get into the nitty gritty here because if we're gonna do a whole episode on resume building, I wanna even talk about stuff that maybe is very basic. This is one of my biggest pet peeves. Yep, when I do help others with, I would say pet peeves, one of the largest gaps understanding. Now this is extremely simple, but if you have an email address that has exo exo in it or random numbers or maybe something else that doesn't have to do their name, go to Google and make a new email address that looks more professional, please. I don't wanna see Angel Hathi, AE, at aol.com. We know you used it in high school, but it's not relevant here. Yeah, and it's so easy to set up a new email, and you can potentially even have that professional email forward to your cute bunny 2020 email address. So that's actually what I was getting at with the contact information is make sure, the other thing I think is if you are applying for a job, my mind don't have your current workplace email as your contact info on the resume. It can be tough, like sometimes I'll do it. I have my personal email on some, and then I have my work email and others. But if you're looking to leave your current position, you probably don't want people contacting you through that email to talk about different job opportunities. You should not be using your employer's resources to be applying for a job. Right. The other thing that I don't do, I don't have my home address on my email and I don't have my cell phone on my, or on my email on my CV. Mm-hmm. Maybe I'm being a little bit cautious because I work in psychiatry, but presumably you're sending the CV out to a lot of different places. So it's something where I don't want home address or cell phone to be readily available. Email is my primary form of contact for people that I don't know. And I'm somewhat protective of my cell phone information. And if they were to follow up with me and say, hey, we saw this, we'd love to schedule a time. I could certainly give them my cell phone number then. But when I'm mass producing or batch sending CVs, I don't want my personal contact information to be out there and too accessible. I don't have my home address on there either and none of it know that I'm thinking about it. Has that ever come up with you and- Never-active stuff? No, I just have, I think like Buffalo, New York on mine or something like that and that's fine. Yeah, you're good. So I mean, I think that's pretty simple. It's usually just one line at the top, depending on how you structure your CV. What would you include on the education component? And my burning question here is, would you include whether you were, you know, GPA or cum laude or anything like that on there? So I think when you are first coming out of school, it definitely is beneficial to put your GPA on there. It's recommended to do so, especially if there is a position that usually requires extra certification as a recommended, because as you're going through your job applications, you're gonna see your required qualifications and then preferred qualifications. So for preferred qualifications, those are the ones where maybe they'll say, yeah, you can be pharmacist, but we prefer somebody who is BCPS or for a PA, maybe they prefer a certain certification. And they're gonna look at those folks first and say, okay, they have the required plus they have got the preferred. So for preferred, an education, it probably makes sense if it's gonna be a residency, required position that you put your GPA on there, maybe you didn't match a residency, it would make sense to see how involved you were in school. Could you handle extra curricular activities while you were performing your graduate program? What's your ability to spread your expertise across many different areas, where they're home or at work or volunteering? So yeah, I think it's important to put certain points of your education on there, but once you get into the workforce, you've been there for a while, you take your GPA off, there's no need, they wanna see what you functioned and been able to do. What are your acts to wise by when, what was your impact at your workplace currently? What about you, what do you think that's important to put cum laude? I mean, because that is pretty cool. I was not cum laude, so maybe if I had that, I would put it on there, but what do you think? I actually don't like when we receive resumes here for job applicants that have GPA on it, even for new grids. And one of the reasons is that these are generally licensed, professional positions. So I'm far more concerned with you passing your boards, you obtaining licensure than what your GPA was. And in part, it's because I'm a big believer that what makes a good healthcare clinician is not explicitly driven by didactic ability. And I think one of the most important parts of healthcare is the ability to think critically, the ability to take an incomplete picture and then try and figure out what the missing parts are. And I can't tell you how many very high performing, academic healthcare professionals I know in school that we're just, you know, 4.0 GPA top of their class, that are so, so clinicians, I don't wanna be too disparaging. And conversely, I know a ton of people that where the C's get degrees, you know, back of the class, struggle bus, every test was an uncertainty, whether they would stay in the program and they are incredible clinicians because they're learning style or their skill set, maybe was not conducive to sitting in a classroom in just digesting PowerPoints or just consuming tons of information and then just putting it to memory. But their ability to think critically, their ability to connect with patients, their ability to manage a very high task load and not lose, you know, the little details is incredible. So academic performance in my mind is not something that I value very highly when I'm looking for, you know, a candidate, especially in our role here at my day job. So when I see someone that has their GPA on their resume, it's not like a cringy eye role for me, but it certainly is something that's like, yeah, that's not important to me and be, I don't necessarily see it as compelling. It's cute. When you go through, usually you're not, nobody's ever looking for the GPA. That I think maybe that's where their PowerPoints nobody's saying, oh, you didn't have your GPA in here. What, how did you do in school? I, second story time is when I went to that one interview that I saw it took a long time, my biggest concern when I brought it up to the director, it was my final interview. I said, you know, I know I did not have a residency. I didn't match and it was my biggest concern and I wanted to prove that I could do the job and that I was committed to getting residency and I couldn't match. So he sat back in his chair and the pause was just deafening. I didn't know what was going on. You know what, John? I really don't care if you had a residency. I care that you graduated because that means that you know how to do the work. You know how to find the answers and that's enough for me. I don't, you just need, I just want a great team player on this team, that's all I want. And that took me into a different world view of how to look at CVs or how to evaluate potential candidates. It has nothing to do with that Mike. You're completely right. Yeah, absolutely. So I think let's maybe shift over and talk about keywords. So we've talked about the body of a CV and the content of the CV. So let's talk about the importance of keywords because this, I think we saved the best for last because this is one that I don't think your average healthcare professional is necessarily putting a lot of thought or effort or time into. And sadly, I think it's really, in my opinion, quite sad because the era of internet recruiting has led to this weird kind of situation where you can have a job posting that may get hundreds if not thousands of resumes. In a small portion of those resumes may actually be relevant or good quality candidates but good quality candidates may end up getting lost in the shuffle because a recruiter or an HR manager, hiring manager may not even be putting eyes on every single CV that comes in. So the way that we get around this, these automatic tracking or automatic filtering software programs is by using the right inappropriate keywords. So typically these applicant tracking systems will use keywords to match the resume to the job posting. So they will use keywords specific to that job posting to try and find resumes that the software identifies as being appropriate candidates or appropriate fits. So let's talk a little bit about just, you know, maybe your thoughts on appropriate keywords. Is there anything that comes to mind for you of ways that we can think about that? Okay, so HES systems, like Mike had mentioned, are primarily used by recruiters or HR to evaluate anybody's CV. It's an automatic system that processes whatever the job requirements are to the CV. It captures words in both and matches them directly based on skill sets and history. So this is most important when you don't have a large network because when you're plugging your, if you're going to, I don't know, let's second pharma, this is easier to go that route. If you're going to Janssen's website and you're going to the career page and you apply to the career page, you don't know anybody at Janssen, you find the perfect position for you, you apply for it, you will want to take that, read that posting, find the key words such as, maybe you always consider yourself a pharmacist. It's just what I can go for Mike. I don't know what you do. That's okay, we're not at a different level. So you have all around your CV that you practice and you can see the pharmacy, this, that, blah, blah. Well, maybe they don't have it as pharmacist, maybe they have clinical pharmacist. Well, now you're a view of a clinical pharmacist, you're going to go back through and you're going to put clinical pharmacist. That's right, right? Maybe there are specific terms that are used in that industry that you don't normally use. Maybe P and L statements, maybe you need to have experience with P and L statements, but maybe at your current workplace, they call them balance sheets or whatever you might call it, change the words to whatever verb is they're using. Again, this is most important for when you don't have a network and you're just putting your system, you're, you risk me into the system. However, if you have a great network and you know somebody had Janssen, yes, this is, this may be important because it's going to have to go to HR at some point, but you were going to bypass a lot of this ATS system by just giving your resume to the right people and letting them put it into the hands of HR or the hiring manager. That's my history with it. I've paid for somebody to go through my CV, though Mike, and change everything to match an ATS system. So there's, there are professionals out there who have the software capabilities to see how well your resume matches a specific job. Think of it like turnitin.com. They will plug your resume into the system and it'll give a percentage of how well it matches and then they will adjust it for you. So yeah, if you have a couple hundred bucks and you want to, you want to pay somebody to do this for you, you can also do it that way, but I'm going to strive to drill it into your heads that you need to build your network more than focusing on your ATS system words. Yeah, I would agree with that. I think so often, good healthcare jobs don't end up getting publicly posted. It's through networking that you find out, hey, this clinic is expanding and in the next six months, they may be looking for a new provider or hey, this new startup maybe has an opportunity for someone that can be in a clinical knowledge base adding to the value of the company. So here's a fun little exercise for you with this in terms of keywords. I just randomly while you were talking, pulled up, I went to indeed.com and just Googled for psychiatric nurse practitioner or physician assistant, which is obviously my field. So I'd pulled up one of the job descriptions and here I'm going to go through the requirements and qualifications and then we can talk about the keywords that we can tease out of that. Perfect. So desire to be an integral part of a rapidly growing team dedicated to transforming the mental healthcare system can rapidly establish deep rapport with the significant variety of people, authentic non-judgmental, focused presence, focused presence, intuitive sensitivity, empathic while maintaining supportive structure, nuanced self discovery, warmth, respect, appreciative, different life trajectories, appreciative of different life trajectories, experience with adversity and active commitment to personal growth, understanding the physical and psychological effects of psychedelic medications, ooh, deep compassion and empathy for others, and the willingness to learn and growth mindset, excellent communication and interpersonal skills, and the ability and tools to work remotely. So give me your thoughts on that because my goodness, that is like, in my opinion, a word salad of all these wonderful little buzzwords that I definitely would want to make sure are in my CV if I were to be applying for this job. Okay, so it would be tempting to take that and find your current role and try to match a few different things that you've done in your last current role and adjust your bullet points to match those keywords, right? Yep, that's tempting. But that's pretty obvious as well. You would want to take these, these expert qualifications, put it into your summary, put it into your body, put it into some of your volunteer work, you spread it out a little bit, you've done these things, find a way to put it into all the different areas that you've worked in. I like the psychedelic medication, that would be a specific one, right? So you guys at your clinic, are you familiar with utilizing psychedelic medication? I mean, somewhat familiar. We're doing ketamine, which is technically not a psychedelic, but very often, cluloguli gets lumped in with them. So you could say, like, ancillary psychedelic medications currently, and you could say something like that, that doesn't say that you've been working with psychedelics, but you could say, involved in research or editing information for psychedelic research for this organization. So anything like that would be fine, just to show that you have that experience. So I would have taken every single one of those psychedelic points, try to match it with something I've done in the past, and reword it in such a way, but use those main keywords, like psychedelic. Or what was the first, that first bullet point, the end of it, said mental health care? What was the term? Yeah, desired to be an integral part of a rapidly growing team dedicated to transforming the mental health system. So transforming the mental health system, you might have said in your, in your CV, that you have a desire to increase the mental health of your community. Well, now you're going to change it to use that exact vervege. So yeah, so my takeaway from reading this is the three key things. If I were to distill it down to three keywords, is growth mindset, so I guess that's two words, but growth? Yeah, but I don't know, it's hyphenated. There you go. Growth, innovation, and then empathy, or patient connection. So as I'm tailoring my CV or my resume to apply for this job, if I were to apply, I would wanna make sure that the body of my CV talks about my experience in growth positions. So I would talk about how my current role, over the past 10 years, the clinic has grown. I've overseen a team. I've been in managerial leadership roles. I would make sure that I have a high emphasis on growth. I would make sure that somewhere in my CV, I talk about the importance and value of connecting with patients, having empathy, the ability to build and establish therapeutic alliance, and maybe the way that I would do that is talk about that I manage my own patient panel that I've been in the same role for 11 years, which has allowed me to build these longitudinal relationships with patients and how I value the importance and therapeutic value that comes with those relationships and empathy. And that might be more of a cover letter thing, but I would try and make sure I weave that in. And then lastly, I would try and integrate the psychedelics, even though I don't have direct psychedelic experience, I would try and focus on how I have been in a clinical role that is innovative, that is using a lot of ketamine, and other non-traditional treatment approaches to try and help push the envelope in terms of helping people with depression or unmet mental health illness. So I would specifically make those three key points, a theme within my CV, and then use some of those keywords in there, but like you said, not make it cut and paste. Don't make it too obvious, but I would have some intentionality to make sure that I'm weaving in and integrating not only the overarching themes that I'm pulling away from this job description, but then also a couple of those keywords that maybe seem to be sticking out. Yeah, I just pulled up an application that I use to help me organize all of this. So I'm not sure of all the different popular platforms for this, but there are different software platforms to help manage all your CVs and resumes, especially if you are on the job hunt. I use mine to help others get their resumes up to date. So it's called flowcv.com. If you look it up, it may be called appapp.fllowcv.com. It's a great way to build your resume and format that is not only visually appealing, but help structure in a way that you can easily adjust all of your professional experience to match these. So when you're going through all these different potentials, different potential jobs, it's a lot to manage. It's a lot to keep track of. This actually has a great resume tracking system too. So if you're looking for something to try and manage this so that you're not having to keep many different word docs on your computer and finding which ones had what in it. So using that system makes it a little bit easier to get your resumes in line for what you have to. Maybe you find some job right away and you're thinking, oh, I got to build this resume. Well, you can have one in your backpack. It's just a pullout and apply right away too. But I want to move on to not only how to manage this, but all of the tips and tricks that I had to go through all of the pain points in order to get my resume down to something readable. So a couple of points I want to make. First of all, your CV should not really be adding more than two pages. Three maybe, but unless you're in a position or a pine to a position that requires a lot of specific information, project work maybe, you would leave that towards the end, but the bulk of what you need to say should land on two pages. Your contact info, you should have a summary. A summary something we haven't hit yet, Mike, but the summary is a position on your CV right at the top that gives a highlight of who you are. A lot of people will put a one or two sentences in there, maybe four sentences, a full paragraph about who they are and what their history says about them in a short and size matter. The people looking at resume are not reading your whole resume. To sorry about that, guys, but they just are not. They will skim just as you skim to see what important factor is point out, but your summary is a very important piece of to showcase who you are. So you really do need to spend a lot of time on that because that doesn't really need to change much with and your applications because it's a general overview of who you are. This is where it's important to get a lot of input from different industries. Family members, friends, colleagues, even, don't be afraid to have a colleague look at your resume. It doesn't mean that you're applying somewhere. We should all be maintaining resumes. So when you're looking at your body of your resume, each past position that you have doesn't need to have many more points than maybe four points on there. And it should be very specific to what you did. Put numbers in there. I assisted this many colleagues during this amount of time to increase this project by this percent. That is what's important. They want to see that you know what type of work you do. You know the data behind your work and that it can show impact for their company. Because at the end of the day, they're hiring you to make impact at their company. Let's talk about volunteer. How big should the volunteer portion of your position be? Probably very small listed. That is it. You probably don't need to put explanations next to what you did. Years maybe you could probably put the year that you did the volunteer, but keep that at minimum. You don't need much there. I've got a few other ones, Mike, but I want to know a couple of what your points, common mistakes to avoid or maybe to include. Yeah, I think just to reinforce what you're saying, the big sticking one for me is grammatical errors or just poor diction. When I look at a CV, I actually really value how the person is as a writer. If the sentences are a mess and they're wordy and just not grammatically solid, I probably am not going to give that person a second look because if they can't even format a basic sentence, that doesn't give me a whole lot of confidence in their ability as a healthcare professional. So I think be concise. Scientific writing is generally very brief. It's very to the point. In my mind, a CV or a resume should be similar. I don't want to see a whole lot of fluff. I don't want to see a lot of being or these passive words in there that I think so often we use conversationally, but really shouldn't be there for writing. So my big thing, I think, if we're going to leave listeners with just my pet peeve or the one resume mistake to make or to avoid, I should say, is just be very conscious of how you are as a writer, how your voice comes through and make sure that you're concise and clear. I think the most important piece here, Mike, is that we all think that we write pretty well especially when we go over and spend a lot of time on it. Just because you spend a lot of time on it doesn't mean that it's good work. You do have to involve other people. You will not see the mistakes you're making unless you involve other people or at least a software to help evaluate your resume. But Mike, I've got one other, because there's so many things that we can talk about with resume writing and this is something that it would be beneficial for us to have separate episodes on each portion of this to help folks write their CVs. So I think that's something we're going to do in the future, but I've got a question for you. Have you seen these folks online who are professional resume writers or maybe an HR? And they give you this trick and maybe anybody else out there may have heard this too. But they say, keep your resume however you want to keep it. It's fine, whatever. Include what you want. It doesn't need to be perfect. But at the end of your CV, take the posting for this job, copy everything off of indeed, copy and paste it into your resume, make the type font as small as possible, like 0.5 and turn it white, turn the letters white so it can't be seen as a way to trick the AGS system. Have you heard this before? I have. I'm not involved enough to do anything like that. Yeah, right. I'm not thrilled with it. Because I feel like if I was reviewing resumes and I saw someone doing that, if I somehow captured it, you're not going to hire them. Yeah, exactly. Right. I think you should go for the jobs that fit your skill set and then hopefully be very intentional of how you write your resume to try and fit that. But I don't know, the idea of trying to be the ATS system, you still have to be a good candidate for the job. If you are trying to cast a wide net because you don't have a lot of experience and maybe you're not in healthcare, okay. Whatever, master on it a little bit, see if it works. But why are you trying to go for a position in healthcare that you're having to trick it to get an interview? I get that it can be difficult to get an interview with a place that you really want to work, but don't go for positions that you're not qualified for. But at the same, in the same breath, Mike, people are more qualified for positions than they really imagine that they are. You can do a lot more. You can function a lot more jobs and your functionality, your current job has a lot more cross, I don't see a cross-pollination, that's not the word I'm looking for. But it crosses very well over into most positions. You said I'd find a right way to say it and that's where friends and colleagues come along. Absolutely. So I think that's a good stop point to stop. So let's transition over and do a little bit of personal items and then we'll call it a day. Do you want to go first? I am chewed up. I've got blisters over my hands, cuts and punctures, scrapes all over my body because this last weekend I took Friday off and I spent pretty much the whole weekend in the yard. Now this might not seem relaxing for many people, but I probably spent a total of 20 hours in the yard this weekend mowing, cutting trails in the back of my property for my boys, taking down the horn bushes, I cut down a tree that Shane saw, cut that out. I love this weather. We've been getting weathered in Rochester about between 1580 degrees on a given day, beautiful sunshine and for me I have to be outside to stay happy. I have to see that green. I have to go on walks. I gotta get that fresh air. So Mike, I'm living my best life right now. Maybe I should be moving, maybe I should move to the south. Maybe I do have seasonal effective disorder, who knows? But I love being outside just working the property, making it look really nice, keeping the lawn as short as possible. So it looks like a golfing green. I would have never done that in my old, my old house, Mike, but I'm loving it right now. That's great. Yeah, it is amazing, because even within my job, I have so many conversations with patients and come late April early May, there's this collective community awakening where the weather's improving, everybody's getting outside. People that ride motorcycles are now out doing what they love, people that love to guard and are out there. It is fascinating how we all collectively come out of hibernation at the same time. So I'll stick with someone of an outdoor team last night, I had my first outdoor soccer game. Why? My soccer team is quite interesting. So I've been with this team for over 10 years. We've been playing together for quite a while. And there's a core group of guys on the team that are now over 30, and we're all starting to kind of break down physically and get a little bit older. But we're still very competitive. So what our team manager ends up doing is about half the team every year is college players and young 18 to 22 year olds. And he just keeps recycling these kids that are several of them are D1 athletes. So we're in this weird position where our team remains actually quite competitive. And as a result, we're still playing at a very high level. We're playing in a very competitive mens league that is almost all college players. It's a premier. It's a, yeah, we're in the premier division. Yeah, good. So we're playing at a very high level. But half the team, or maybe there's like six of us now, are over 30 and have really no business being at this high level. We're playing against a bunch of 18 to 19 year olds that could run all day and never get tired. So it's fun. And it's a really enjoyable night because the soccer is a very high quality. But every single game I feel like I'm just a little bit older, a little bit slower. So as I'm reaching maybe the end of my competitive soccer career, I just, I'm becoming old. I have a greater appreciation for the fact that I'm 34, so I'm not too old. But I'm still able to play at a high level and in somewhat hang with these young kids. Oh, man. And I'm realizing that, you know, I don't know when it's going to be the end, but it's probably within the next couple of years just because physically, I can feel myself struggling to keep up. So I'm going to enjoy it while I still have it, even if it is the, maybe my swan song in competitive soccer. I did that last year, Mike. And I got invited. I played soccer for many years. Oh, my God. I thought it was going to be like a Old Men's Hockey League, wherever he's just kind of like joking around and kicking. No, these guys are serious. I threw up the first time I played because I didn't realize how much I had to run. And I always played right mid. And I hated right mid. I like playing right fullback because I'd not to run as much. I could be violent. Well, right mid, nobody wants to play. So guess who got to run the whole time? Yeah. And get a sunburn. Yep. Like not fun. But it showed me that I am getting older. I was one of the older kids here. And people just, I can't keep up with them. So maybe this is a awakening for you and I to just start. Maybe not just expanding our brains, but we need to work our bodies a bit. Yeah. I mean, this is why I think I like outdoor activities, like mountain climbing and things like that, because you could do that into your 70s. But all right. Well, thank you, everyone, for joining us. This was maybe a little bit more career focused. And like I said, I think the next few weeks, we're going to try and keep more of a career focus just in line with people graduating from school. But I'm Mike. This is John, where white coats are on table. If you like what you hear, give us a listen, follow, review. If you don't like what you hear, definitely don't review us. Until next week, we'll see you again. Love you. Bye.