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Hello everyone. I'm pleased today to have the opportunity to have a discussion with Michael Yann, who's one of the world's great roving journalists. He's been in all the hellholes around the world, maybe not all of them, but a good proportion of them over the last few decades and he's written for many of the major news outlets across the world at the moment he's in the Netherlands covering the Dutch farmers protest among other things. He's a company by Eva Vlartinger-Bruk who is a political figure in Europe in the Netherlands and they've been both attending the Dutch farmer protests and I wanted to get them together today to talk about why anyone should care about the fact that Dutch farmers are protesting. How many of them are protesting? What it means and what the broader issues are at stake because what's happening in the Netherlands is a reflection of a what a sociopolitical struggle that's going on at a very deep level between worldviews that are truly in opposition and the Dutch farmer protest in my estimation is a what would you say it's a microcosm of a much larger battle that's raging and will continue to rage for the next while rage for the next while. So Michael maybe let's start with you how long have you been in the Netherlands now in this span of time? Well during this trip in particular I've been back for about one week as you know you were we were together you and I were together here last year and I came on your podcast last year I was down in Mexico watching the migration if you want to call it that into Texas and then I saw that the Dutch farmers were blocking the streets in in Netherlands and having lived in Europe for more than six years I realized that was significant so I jumped on an airplane a left Mexico came straight here to the Netherlands and went out to the first farmers I could find blocking streets and I said why are you blocking the streets and so because you know in every country that I go to around the world I've spent more than half of my life traveling around the world to places like Afghanistan and Iraq and India and I go straight to the farmers and because that's where you get one of the pulses right and and I said what's going wrong here and they started telling me and giving me an earful and I realized we have a significant problem and as you know I've written three books on and unfortunately they're only in Japanese language I wrote them in English but they're about information more right so I study information more as you know information more is the PhD level of warfare all the kinetics which I did for years and various wars Iraq Afghanistan whatever that's certainly very important especially when you're in it but the PhD level of warfare is information more and I realized that the Dutch were at an epicenter of the information more as are the Japanese that's why I wrote those three books warning the Japanese that they're that they are being targeted by the CCP the Chinese Communist Party and an information campaign that's designed to split the Koreans and the and the Japanese and the Americans apart it's now I wrote those I started writing those books in 2014 and in 2019 and 20 the actually the split was was relatively complete with the Japanese and the Koreans all based on information war I'll turn back to the information war issue the legacy media coverage of what's happening in the in the in the on the Dutch farmer protest front because that's relevant to the information war but let's let's turn to Eva for a moment Eva do you want to just explain to people who you are and what you do and how long you've been doing it and then why you're interested in the Dutch farmers protest and how you got tangled up with such a nefarious character as Michael well I'm Dutch so let's start there so I was born and raised here and that's partly why I'm so interested in the cause of the Dutch farmers so I've been able to follow what has been happening to them for years now because it's important for people to know that even though you know the protests of the last summer and the protests that are happening now are being televised quite widely this is a fight that has been going on for years you know our government is really fighting a war of attrition against our farmers so that is one I have personally I have a background in law I'm a legal philosopher and my academic time wasn't that long my university decided to kick me out of my PhD program basically because I was deemed too controversial politically speaking so I decided to turn the other way and I have been focusing on international media and making videos and putting out my content in English mostly and in German now but so I'm mostly focused on the international market I'm a conservative commentator I could say and I've met Michael we met in person yesterday actually for the first time but I've seen Michael's work online and I admire him immensely so I'm very happy to meet him now Jordan Ava was leading the way yesterday in the there was some fear for some people attending the protests in fact one of the opposition parties the BB better party build back better it's a how do you say it in Dutch Borden Borden befolk Rung Beveggel right the the farmers are they think yeah supposed to mean citizen farmers movement the leader of that Caroline Vanderplace she she was afraid to attend the protests yesterday afraid for her safety she said so what did Ava do she took the front she took the front tractor and was the first one to arrive in a tractor yesterday so that was pretty good leadership on your part it got everybody psyched up so Eva are you are you you're primarily focusing on political commentary do you have any official or traditional political position or are you functioning primarily as a investigative journalist and commentator no I I function independently from any political party at the very moment at this very moment I have been involved in Dutch politics briefly and parliamentary politics but that really wasn't for me I don't want to be in that system again and I really enjoy my newfound freedom of being able to say exactly what I think and what I want to say to the world so I'm planning on keeping it this way okay so do you want to outline for the people who are watching what you said that the the battle so to speak between the Dutch farmers and the Dutch government has been going on for quite a long time now isn't reasonable to construe it as a battle between the Dutch farmers and the Dutch government or is it a a faction of farmers and a faction of the government like I'd like to know how widespread the discontent among Dutch farmers is and whether there is a fracture within the farming community itself and then the same thing obtains obviously at the political level these things are seldom monolithic so what's let's start with the farmers what what what percentage of farmers are upset what percentage are complaining and why are they upset okay yeah I think that there is not one Dutch farmer right now that is not that is happy with the Dutch government the current Dutch cabinet so that's important to note it is definitely a fight from the Dutch farmers against the government or the other way around I should rather say everybody is upset and of course there are differences within the farmers there are people I would say the most important split between the farmers that exists right now is the group of farmers that is willing to compromise that is willing to talk to the government and say okay we'll still negotiate and the group that is completely done with that so I think the most important split between those two groups is the group that accepts the narrative of the idea that there is a nitrogen crisis so to say and the group that says no there isn't there is no nitrogen crisis we have done everything that you have asked of us for the past I don't know about at least three years now in terms of you know reorganizing our businesses doing everything that you asked of us and you are still coming after us and we are done so I think that is probably ideologically also the most important question in this in this war that the government is waging against our farmers do you still believe the narrative that the government presents you with or do you not okay so let's let's go in two directions there you talked about a nitrogen crisis so we should outline what constitutes the government narrative on the nitrogen crisis side and you also mentioned that a substantial proportion of the farmers are now done with negotiating they feel that they've been pushed to the wall that they've done everything they possibly could and that there's nothing left but the opportunity to say no I mean one of the things that struck me about the Dutch farmers protest immediately was that I know farmers and I know that modern farmers are very sophisticated and they're also very hardworking and they don't have time to muck around and the machinery for example that they're using the tractors and so forth to to to bring to the protests is extremely expensive machinery and it's not it's not generally within the easy means of a farmer to put their machinery to any other use than productive use on the farm and I know Dutch farmers are hyper productive maybe the best in the world or certainly among the best and so my sense was that if the Dutch farmers are upset a substantial proportion of them they're like a canary in the coal mine there's probably something to be upset about but what percentage of the Dutch farmers do you think are in a situation where they're seriously done with negotiation and then what does it mean for people in a peaceful polity to be done with negotiation right well let's let's talk about what our government wants to do so with this nitrogen crisis that they say we now have they're saying that they need to reduce nitrogen emissions and what that comes down to is that 50% of the Dutch farmers will have to go by the year of 2030 those are their goals so imagine you know if 50% of the farmers have to go then hopefully you think that 50% of all those farmers in our country are done with our government I think that would be a fair estimate okay okay okay and that means that at least 30% of the livestock will have to be abolished as well and our government has been you know like I said it's been a war of attrition they've been doing negotiations for all these years going back and forth and in the last over the last couple of months even more so but what you can really see is our the strategy of our government is always the same they say all will negotiate with you you know they sit down with a group of farmers that is maybe a bit more moderate group you know rather than the the people that go out to these rallies for example that we were at yesterday and then they go back to the boardroom they take a couple of extra months you know nobody knows really what's going on and then they come back with a new report and it says exactly the same thing but with different words and usually phrase a little bit nicer you know but if you really read what it says nothing ever changes actually the last report that came out was a report that doubled down so in the last report what they said they use words that confused the population they used the word saying that the peak polluters have to go so 600 peak polluters which would include some other you know businesses not just farmers but some other businesses well predominantly farmers though 600 of them will have to go in the next year see so you know we go from cutting 50% by 2030 to now oh by the way 600 peak polluters have to be gone in the next year and we're not doing that with expropriation no it all has to be on a voluntary basis but you know the reality of the matter is that nothing about this is voluntary it's a war of attrition they've been pushing these farmers to despair you know we've had so many cases of farmers who've committed suicide already these people are being tormented by our government and then if they end up selling at the very end because their licenses isn't renewed for example then our government can still say that it was voluntary but we all know that nothing about this effect is voluntary okay so my understanding correct me if I'm wrong is that the part of the reason that the Dutch government is down the next on the next let's say of the farmers is because environmentalist activists have taken the Dutch government to court to force them to comply with European Union top down environmental apocalypse oriented European Union regulations that are aimed at reducing let's say carbon output but also reducing other forms of pollution and now nitrogen pollution can be a problem if excess fertilizer enters waterways and so forth it can cause algal blooms and and obviously it's the case that we want to pollute the least amount possible well growing food so but why do you think like first of all have I got that story right have have the Dutch has the Dutch government itself been cornered by the courts and is that a consequence of European Union pressure I think that they are very happy that that happened though and they go further than what the European Union has told them to do so the Dutch government isn't innocent in this case you know they're not completely just cornered by the courts they have gone further than what Brussels has told them to do so I think that is very important because it shows you their true intent and I think that the true intent that the government has is to get rid of our farmers they want the land because they need the land I'm sure we'll get the talk to that in a bit but it's definitely I would say that there's definitely intent here and it goes further than just being cornered by courts they are they're they're they've been cornered by the courts but they're perfectly happy with that cornering and they're willing to take it farther so why do the why does the EU and their and the courts and the environmentalists and the government have their panties in the not so to speak about nitrogen per se like what's the problem exactly that they're trying to address here and why do they think that demolishing the farming industry is going to solve that problem what's their goal like if you had to frame it positively what would their goal be well the story is that they want to preserve nature so there are designated areas in the Netherlands that are natural reserves so to say and they've decided it's a political decision that that landscape cannot change so it has to remain the same it has to remain the same as it was for example 25 years ago so that means that certain sand dunes for example can't have vegetation or the certain plants can't grow there it needs to look exactly the same so they say that that is to protect nature but it's a political choice of how you want your country to look how you want you know the landscape the countryside to look so to me that so so start of this is real yeah well so so so they're they're pushing the pristine nature narrative yes fundamentally how many farmers do you think are protesting at the moment actively protesting in terms of absolute numbers I think that's hard to say I will look I will look at Michael for that as well because we like I said we have 50,000 farms and it's definitely not I wouldn't say it's the majority because a lot of people have already lost a fair bit of hope so what do you think Michael how many farmers do you think are currently protesting physically protesting keeping in mind I do these things around the world so most of the people will be the support base to never go to a protest so your support base is always difficult to measure actually but everybody all the farmers that I speak with now Ava just mentioned sort of apathy may have set in or resignation that they may not be able to to defeat this government actually if we're talking about nitrogen we're talking about the wrong level by the way where if we're talking about the details of this we're already losing because this is not about sticks to office they call it here nitrogen this is about taking those farms and making tri-state city tri-state city is this giant city you can see the maps you and I have talked about it before when you were here Jordan tri-state city is called tri-state city because it will take most or all of the Netherlands part of Belgium and part of Germany and to this mega smart city basically a control city and it happens to end at Rotterdam which is at the end of the railhead all the way from Shanghai so the railway all the way from Shanghai China all the way across Asia will go right through the middle of tri-state city and we'll be sitting in tri-state city right now so you've got to take that farmland if we go back in history and we look what Stalin did in the Ukraine 32 and 33 in the Holotomor one of the things the main people that he targeted were the Kool-Ox the farmers right so he did an information campaign this is all about information more he targeted the Kool-Ox labeled the Kool-Ox labeling somebody a Kool-Ox was like in a sense labeling them Jewish or Polish in different areas right or similar same area actually but labeling people Kool-Ox then using the information more convinced people that all their problems were the result of the Kool-Ox and if you just take their farms your problems will go away so basically did a replacement strategy right and so people came in killed the Kool-Ox and took their farms and had a massive famine right because the ability to farm I talked with a fisherman yesterday at the protest his family has been fishing since the 1400s as far back as he can track it right this is they fishing and farming is what they know how to do right so when you do these replacement strategies for instance the mal did of course mal studied Stalin you've got to get rid of the farmers so it's not about it's not just about has nothing to do with nitrogen that's completely irrelevant and again if we're talking nitrogen we're losing now on a bigger picture you know that I study migration deeply hop the human osmotic pressure the hop the human osmotic pressure is the push and pull of the migration I just left Darien I just left the Darien gap between Panama and Colombia again that's why I addressed in these funny clothes and so I was just down there watching Chinese come through in large numbers mostly military age males the Darien gap is that area between Colombia and South America between Colombian Panama where people can it's an hourglass from Africa and Asia and South America through Panama up to the United States so we have about a thousand people a day coming through there right now from about 140 countries now back to work let's bring this back to Netherlands there's a clear replacement strategy going on that's what Stalin did with the lot of more right replacing the kool-ok that's what mal did that's what pole pot did that's what so many other people that's what they're working on now in South Africa and have done in other African countries right they're doing right now people are coming in from about 140 countries just through the Darien gap here in Netherlands or let's go over to Luxembourg a neighbor of of Netherlands I was there last year and approximately half of the country now is actually migrants you can see that on their official website now the migrants who are coming in are not monocultural it's not just Afghans or Pakistanis or Yemenis or something like that so the divide and conqueror is already done in that regard for instance one pig farmer that I was with in Netherlands last week I asked if he's hiring any migrants he said yes he had a bunch of Afghans who were great workers he said and but then they suddenly got their residence cards to live in Netherlands and now they're getting paid to stay here so they had to quit their work right he grows pigs and pears and Christmas trees so then he hired some other people from Africa and other countries Ukraine and other places but he hires people from different countries that are migrants right but now they're already prepping and and Ava can talk more about this they're prepping the Dutch mind and they're doing the same in Finland and other places to start taking in migrants into your homes they're not doing it yet they're not ordering it but Ava can can talk more about this there is a law on the Dutch books that in a case of emergency you'll have to take people into your homes right and they're prepping this now in the news cycles like you know they're not doing it but just to put that in the back of your mind one lady that lives in a big farmhouse after her family has gone and her husband has died she doesn't need that big farmhouse she can bring in some simoles to live with her right they're prepping a replacement strategy it's writing your face it's writing your grill I was down in Morocco last year watching uh the the the Moroccan government pushed people to Souta and Milila which were two Spanish cities they're in Morocco and I was down in Greece watching the Turks push them over the border into into Greece I was up in Lithuania watching Belarus that's when I started warning that something was about to happen when we saw the when we saw the uh the Belarusians pushing migrants they tried to push them into Poland Poland did not allow it of course and then Lithuania allowed some and I was up there for five weeks the Lithuanians gave me complete access to their camps because I I know people in the Lithuanian army because I was with them in Afghanistan so they gave me complete access to the camps and to the border and to their their intelligence people and their army and whatnot and they had this was a clear weaponization of migration it's weaponization of migration this has gone on since forever again that's what's the what's the goal what okay so so Michael now you've opened up like 15 different counts of worms so let me walk through a couple of them I have a specific question for you and for you the first of all if the Dutch government manages to eliminate 50% of farmers and 30% of livestock by 2030 which is pretty much tomorrow why do they think that the entire infrastructure that supports the agricultural industry in the Netherlands will survive because there's obviously a whole supply chain that's dependent on the Dutch farmer production and they're going to be running on very tight margins and that would include grocery stores and food processing plants and all of that and if they lose 50% of their inputs well they're going to collapse there's not going to be half of them left there's going to be zero of them left and so is that being taken into account in the government plans and then and then what do the what does the Dutch government make of the fact that well you know Dutch people need food and maybe they need local food and there's no there's every bit of evidence to assume that the Dutch farmers can provide food much more efficiently and with much less pollution than farmers anywhere else because food's going to have to be imported like is there a vision at all on the government side for what's going to happen when the entire food supply infrastructure is stressed and threatened by the lack of the farmers and the lack of the livestock and what and are they giving no credence whatsoever to the necessity for food security it's very weird in Holland since it had a bloody famine just after World War II so what's going on in the food provision front even maybe you could take it up for a second and then I'll return to some of Michael's comments yeah I don't think they care about that and that's exactly the problem so it shows you what they're true agenda behind all if this isn't as Michael said that isn't agenda of control so I think the Dutch farmers are being targeted for two reasons one of them being that our farmers like you said they're so effective you know they're such good where the second largest exporter of agricultural products and we're such a tiny country you would think that this sector is celebrated by our government the fact that it's not the fact that it's under attack is to a rational mind just completely insane really you know it's insane and so you have to start thinking what is the real reason that they're doing this then why would you start coming after farmers in a time of food scarcity and that's where you come to the question of intent and I know that people find that to be a scary question I understand that people are like oh well this is you know we live in a liberal democracy we're in the western world our government would never want us to be hungry our government would never want us to starve well I think that that is plain wrong I think if you control the food supply you control the people and our government knows that just as well as China does you know that is not something that has left the modern mind so to say of the people who rule us and our farmers are quite frankly the only people with the courage and the manpower to stand up to our government they are an independent group they function freely you know without the help of the government oftentimes they are heartbreaking they are Christian they represent the Dutch spirit more than just you know an agricultural sector they represent I would say our culture as a nation you know they are very very important group oftentimes these businesses have been in Dutch families for centuries on end it is the backbone of our society so I think that that is one of the main reasons why they want them gone you know really it's an attack on our identity so so now okay now Michael made a complex case for intent and I'm going to return to that but I want to make a simpler case for intent and then I want to discuss this the idea of the the tri city for example and and the the the theft of land from the farmers and what might be behind that so when I look at what's happening on a woke environmentalist front what I fundamentally see are venal politicians who are not very competent at anything except attempting to look competent in a narcissistic way that manipulate opinion polls and public opinion in general so that they can appear as though they're providing people with what they want now I saw this on the COVID front so for example in Canada I talked to senior advisors of a even conservative governments in Canada who told me flat out and to their own great shame that all the COVID policy lockdowns were driven 100% by opinion polls 100% and then justified with science post-hawk and I found that out with a reporter friend of mine who's a brilliant political analyst and who's been doing it for decades and I got to tell you that that was shocking to both of us that it had actually got to that extreme and so what I see happening on the political front is as I said there's politicians who really have no long-term vision they're trying to cling to power in one way or another they can caught on to this environmentalist ethos where they're protecting the virginal planet they're looking like heroes it doesn't take any effort on their part they can tell other people what to do and that's and they look like they're actually making progress towards some desired end and then they can frighten people with idiot and ballcliptic narratives and because people are frightened they consider any environmental movement forward as positive and of course people like parks and nature and that sort of thing so it's not that hard to sell it isn't obvious to me that it's necessary to dig for deeper motives in the way that Michael is digging and we'll turn to that because I'm obviously going to give him full reign to to justify his apprehensions when you're looking at deeper intent like you're alluding to the idea that there's some plot to let's say to destroy core dutch identity what do you think is behind this other than other than ignorance and narcissistic vignality and what do you think of the of the of the trice city hypothesis for example and the notion that this is actually a planned program to depopulate the farm area so that the land can be turned over to well to whoever it is that's interested in getting control of it well I think there is definitely nothing conspiratorial about the idea that our government you know caters to the interests of globalists rather than to the people you know if they were to listen to what the vuxpopoli says they wouldn't do this I would say that the majority of dutch people although you will never hear that in the mainstream media do not agree with this you know they don't think that expropriation is a good thing but they are being indoctrinated from all sides that this in fact will help nature that this in fact will help the climate and so the fact that all the models that our government is using to calculate these nitrogen minimishes that they are faulty that they are wrong which I think does show you you know that they are aware of the fact that this is a premise that this is not actually their their actual agenda you know I think that that is that shows you that they don't have our best interests at heart so I think that is it's very safe to say that that is not you know a conspiracy in any way shape or form then the you know the financial and political gain that they will get when they are able to seize these farmers' land our country is a small country but 80 percent of it is made up out of farmland so imagine what the state could do with that land you know what type of benefits that would bring them and of course you know the they're happy to push this this agenda virtue like oh look at us protecting nature and that is something that the mainstream media will also push so that is almost a self-affilling prophecy right so oh right absolutely well okay so in Canada I believe it's it's clearly the case that Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and Deputy Prime Minister Freeland and also the socialist hypothetically yeah I mean seeing who's propping up the Trudeau government are officianados of the WEF of the world economic forum that's absolutely crystal clear and Trudeau has put forth a set of policies just transition recently that are essentially aimed at eviscerating the Canadian energy industry demolishing the forestry industry and doing exactly the same thing to the Canadian farmers that the Dutch government is doing to the to the Dutch farmers they've called for a 35 percent reduction and fertilizer use across the board independent of how much fertilizer any given farmer uses per unit of food not knowing at all that the farmers have strived diligently for the last six decades to be so hyper efficient with fertilizer use because it's expensive not least that that it beggars description I mean they use satellite technology in their fertilized in the machines that distribute the fertilizer to make sure that it's never overused it's and they're unbelievably productive but all of that's going by the wayside and it is definitely because as far as I can tell because Trudeau and Freeland and Singh are trying to please their globalist masters and they don't give a damn about Canada as a nation because as our own prime minister has said the whole idea of the nation state is archaic and anachronistic and also dangerous and so you think the same thing is happening on the on the on the Dutch side and so what do you think what do you think is characterized the globalist agenda for me well let's first say that Trudeau and Margaret our prime minister you know are I would say almost basically the same person in terms of their political agenda their political ideas you know they've been seen holding hands and hugging during the pandemic when they told everybody else to stay at least a meter and a half apart from each other and they were cracking down on our constitutional rights so Canada and the Netherlands are both pilot countries for the W E F we are both pilot countries for the globalist agenda but I think that the Netherlands is maybe even an easier target because we are already part in a way of a super national organization which is the EU you know all of these policies come from the European Union and they obviously based their policies again on this sustainable development goals that come from the United Nations and the World Economic Forum adopts those as well so I you know when I hear you talk about Trudeau it's as if as if I hear you talk about Margaret there they're quite literally the same person when it comes to ideology so that is that is really important to know and these people cater to that globalist ideal which I think they are able to sell again to the population with this fake idea of virtue so if you look for example at the sustainable development goals of the United Nations you know they're they're 30 of them or 17 I think 17 sustainable development goals all of them if you look at them sound wonderful you know you you would think oh this is perfect of course I want to I don't want anybody to be hungry of course we want to abolish poverty worldwide of course we want the sexist to have equal opportunities but the answer is always a crackdown on actually your freedom and on being Dutch can you can you tell George back to the killing your identity can you tell Jordan about how the Dutch government does not even want you to use the word word Holland anymore absolutely yeah no I mean we are our prime minister will not stop I think until we don't have a border anymore I mean technically you know he or he doesn't mean anything already with all the mass migration that we have coming in which Michael did make a fair point about for example last year we broke a migration record again 450,000 people came into our tiny little piece of land that is already so incredibly densely populated the majority of the Dutch people have been against how many people are there in Holland we have about 18 million people what's what's the population and we are about half the size of the American state of Indiana okay to the point of the borders and stealing national identity just yesterday that the protest where you led the way where some people chickened out but you took the lead truck the excellent while that protest was going on the the extension rebellion tried to interrupt the protests that we were at which was very peaceful and a very happy event actually the one that we were at with five or 10,000 people out don't even know how many were there the extension rebellion where block was blocking a 12 right highway a 12 and so the German the Dutch police actually asked the German poloidseid to send water cannons over which they did they sent water cannon trucks from Germany poloidseid were driving in you know poloidseid trucks and they started spraying down Dutch protesters this is amazing to think about you would never have thought that 80 years ago that would you enforce this again in a military sense with the Germans but now we have and one of the trucks and in a spate of just irony it was it was hunt two hunt two you know basically the Huns are in Netherlands oh wow wow you can't even make up the stuff I think I sent it to you Jordan so they they took the side of extinction rebellion essentially which is as radical and in virus no no no they were spraying extension they were they were they were spraying extinction rebellion but the funny thing is is that the the German police were in Netherlands using their water cannon yesterday so even from like a legal perspective most what is important I think to know for a country like mine and any country in the European Union has that a lot of our laws already don't aren't made in our country you know they come from the European Union so that democratically leaves a huge gap between the citizen and the laws that come in and then in my country specifically any international law is has more legal power than the national law what how is that for democracy right so just that mere fact shows you I think you know that we can no longer speak of a really strong national identity and democracy in that sense well you know you know I was in in the Netherlands about five years ago talking to a group of Dutch intellectuals comedians artists and so forth and one of the things they told me was that they were having very doubt very they were having very grave doubts about the integrity of the Dutch identity and that really came as a shock to me because as a Canadian I I come from this little town in northern Alberta which is only about 50 years old in Canada especially western Canada is a very very new country and so when I come to a place like Holland and I hear the Dutch people especially the intellectuals and artistic leaders express doubts about the integrity of their culture it's just absolutely shocking to me because when I come in as an outsider I think Holland is one of the great cultures has one of the great cultures of the world but technologically because your society runs so smoothly it's an absolute bloody miracle especially because you should be under water and then culturally as well I mean Amsterdam's an absolutely beautiful city it has a rich artistic tradition a rich religious tradition and if you if you Dutch are starting to doubt the validity of your own identity there's no hope for let's say for Canadians and of course our prime minister has already famously announced that Canada has no core identity and that we're the first post-national state and so but how do you even how do you read the fundamental motivation of the globalists I mean you talked about the sustainable development goals and I have to admit or also pronounce that I helped write the original sustainable goal document and that was probably 10 years ago and in my defense I can tell you that the drafts that were produced before the team that I was working on rewrote them were a hell of a lot more vicious and troublesome than the drafts that we ended up with we took a lot of idiotic cold war pro-socialist prose out of the descriptions and tried to make sense out of it I came out of that with a sense that I was extraordinarily confused at the multitude of the goals because there was no prioritization and also about the potential danger of precisely the top-down machinations that you're describing but as you said if you look at the sustainable development goals one by one it's very difficult to take issue with them they all look positive the problem is is that they are they're converted into top-down policy that's that's implemented by force and you pointed out something else that's extraordinarily troublesome which is that as we move toward international governance which is obviously necessary at some to some degree because nations have to communicate we're moving the distance between people at the local level like the Dutch farmers and those who putatively govern them we're putting in such a distance between them in terms of communication that there is no communication there's just top-down edict that's a real tower of babble situation and the reason I think the Dutch farmers are bellweathers or canaries in the coal mine is because they are so-called ordinary competent people hyper-competent people and they're shaking their fist in the air saying look you're demolishing our livelihoods here while you're pursuing your virtue signaling self-aggrandizing hyper moral goals and not only are you not accomplishing those goals you're actually working at counter purposes to them like the German government has managed on the energy front and so we're seeing a danger of a very intrusive form of global governance and that's as you said it's taking priority all over all national local and individual concerns and that that's a huge danger and I don't think people are cognizant of that at all at all yet lost as in the as they are in this delusion that we're doing something like serving the environment right it was a very very simple narrative but so what do you see though you know you made a bit of a case there for the beneficial motives of some of the globalists at least in relationship to these goals but there's a nefarious element to what's going on what do you think the what do you think the the fundamental intent is you know like I worry about statements like the planet has too many people on it and we've exceeded the carrying capacity of the biosphere etc etc which sound to me like implicitly murderous they're it's essentially murderous sentiment or suicidal but what do you think what do you think the intent of the globalists if if you had to give the devil is due yes okay so globalist I mean obviously they're people so the the the flaws that are in our human souls the one for power and money lives inside of them as well and they want to do it on a global scale so the biggest evil I would say imaginable gets its chance if you let the globalists take rule so what do you want to do if you are a globalist who wants to you know open up all borders have essentially the biggest consumer base in the world which is the entire world right well then things like Christianity national identity cultural identity are just things that stand in your way if you want to create the perfect consumer then you want somebody who doesn't know who he is who doesn't know what he stands for you know the vow Christian for example who wants nothing more than to start a family and work hard and live for God is not going to be the perfect consumer that sits on his couch watches Netflix all day orders his food from Uber Eats you know and does nothing more than that does nothing more than just consume so I think that the it's for me at least it's hard not to see again they're the question of intent you know of trying to uproot people so that they are confused and aimless souls that will buy what these globalists offer and do as they say and I think that that is exactly what we are witnessing today most of us are turning into perfect consumers without a higher purpose oh well you sound when you talk like that you sound more like Joe Rogan or Russell Brand which and maybe even Bernie Sanders you know these people on the left who are still genuine leftists in some sense who are hyper concerned about corporate gigantism which I think is a genuine a genuine element of concern and what you're seeing expressing is an unholy and I would say truly fascist level of collusion between corporate giants who are essentially motivated by very little else than a kind of self-serving greed and and maybe which might work at a local level when there's lots of competition but when they're large enough to engage in regulatory capture and to engage in collusion with government and media that poses another one of these tower of babble threats to all of us and so that ties back into Michael what Michael had brought up earlier all the snakes that he'd what would you say exposed underneath the carpet so Michael I made the case to Eva that you could you could argue that you could you could attribute intent to the globalists merely as a consequence of their desire to mask their incompetence with virtue signaling to the masses and then you could say corrupted by their unrecognized greed on the corporate front and all the dark motivations that that puts in place for government corporate collusion but you're pointing to something that's more nefarious and as they say in the scientific community extraordinary extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence so I don't know anything except for what we've talked about briefly about this tri-city hypothesis and that seems to be like I wouldn't want to wander down that rabbit hole unless it was absolutely necessary given that there's already alternative it's not a hypothesis you're very well that this is that that's what I want you to make the map and tell people why you have searched tri-state city and you'll see the map instantly they've got it mapped out we would be sitting right in the middle of it right here the map is mapped out they're doing research to make it now and I when I see Trump talking about beautiful cities I mean it sounds like tri-state city which is a smart city which is meant for complete control I mean they're they're already doing at break at brain port city their experiment have been to brain port city over there looking at think look we could have the same I'm going to Japan again next week again I've written three books that are only in Japanese about this subject and I'm going there again next week we could have this exact same discussion if we take this to the orbital view the exact same discussion in Japan and the details would sound almost like they do here like little details they don't talk about sticks to off nitrogen but they talk about other things for instance Ava Ava could be Mesa Gogara and she'll be saying the exact same things except with little details okay so in Canada and Canada Google attempted okay in Canada Google attempted to collude with the Ontario government to to make the new port development in Toronto into a smart city and a person I know well who knows more about technological issues and issues of potential technological control probably than anybody I've ever talked to in the world more or less fought that to a standstill so that Google didn't get their hands on the port development in Canada and his primary concern was that what Google essentially wanted was all the data that would be generated as a consequence of constant monitoring of absolutely everything that went on in the smart city because that data is part of the extended digital self and has tremendous commercial value because if I can track you in all your purchases and where you're going and where you are I can target you for marketing in a way that's been unheard of up until now and so that's a that's a huge can of worms in the in any case that didn't happen in Canada but now it's reminiscent to me as well of what's happening in the UK most particularly in Oxford and Cambridge in relationship to the 15-minute cities now the 15-minute cities are put forward as a solution to the problem of undue distance to travel and so the idea is that wouldn't it be lovely if we had walkable neighborhoods where everything you needed was within easy reach and you know I have some sympathy for that because I've gone to monoculture suburbs let's say that are nothing but row upon row upon row of identical houses with no churches and no bars and no community centers and you know the shopping centers at a distance and that doesn't look like an optimal urban model but I looked into the C-40 websites the C-40 is the consortium of municipalities that have signed on to the 15-minute city plan and I read in their own documentation this is relevant to the tri-state city idea that their goals are to reduce color color color consumption to 2500 calories a day by by force essentially within the next 15 years to ensure that the peasant class which is everybody but the elitists can't fly more than one time every three years to not merely shift private car ownership from fossil fuel to electric which is fundamentally impossible because the grid can't handle it but to eliminate 90% of private car ownership so that people are forced to take you know unbelievably expensive in terms of time utilization and non-existent public transportation systems and to limit the amount of travel that people can do outside of their neighborhoods and you know I find and then I watch the legacy media claim that pointing that out is something akin to a right wing conspiracy which it most certainly isn't because you can just find the bloody documentation online and then I look at places like China which have taken this to an extreme 400 600 million closed circuit TV cameras in China one for every one and a half persons watching the Chinese all the time able to monitor them 100% by face and also to identify them by gate and and to limit their ability to do absolutely anything to buy to sell to travel to move to leave their neighborhood with this top down surveillance system that perversely and consciously the some of the Chinese engineers have actually named SkyNet and in a conscious attempt to produce a positive version of you know the absolutely catastrophic apocalyptic artificial intelligence that was in the bloody Arnold Schwarzenegger movies and you can't even talk about this stuff without sounding like a raving conspiratorialist but but there it is now tell me more about the Tri-State City so what have you seen because I don't know anything about it neither does anybody else watching I presume except for you know those who've gone down the rabbit hole with you yeah you know you know I love to read voraciously on pandemic because I'm a war correspondent and pandemic famine and war they go together right they are co-sanguinated and I was reading a book about cholera a couple of years ago I think it was called ghost map and interestingly towards the end of the book he locked the the author and an otherwise excellent book started talking about these smart cities where you know basically everything we don't have to worry about any disease anymore that sort of thing last time I was in China which you know I got kicked out of Hong Kong in 2020 I was a bad boy I was watching the protest and they finally kicked me out after seven months but that was Hong Kong but when I was last time I was in mainland China I was actually researching information more I was in places like Nanjing and Shanghai and that sort of thing but I was in southern China where the weakers are at for part of that trip and I was talking with restaurant owners and farmers and that sort of thing and the restaurant various restaurant owners told me that when a weaker comes in they are mandated by law to call the police immediately the police immediately come to check so the smart city goes beyond mere optics you know they're installing those cameras all over Hong Kong they were doing it that one I left that's in Hong Kong but over in mainland China it's not just the cameras everywhere it's also you know you're mandated to call when I was in Hong Kong by the way in the protest the protesters would take their lasers and shine them in the cameras and burn out the sensors actually my camera got a little damaged by it and but you know that's not a long-term solution obviously but the what I'm getting to is these smart cities are clearly coming and they're already here to some degree every time we use our cards and that sort of thing but they're clearly taking it to a higher level of complete control and again they this isn't conspiratorial they say they're going to do it and we talk about marketewt of the prime minister of Netherlands you can see Klaus Schwab going where do you find such prime ministers as marketewt you know do you see him say I watch your twitter Jordan and I and I watch a lot of your podcast I know you know what's going on because you talk about it all the time you you attack Trudeau it seems like every two hours right I mean you you know exactly what's happening this is because I don't have enough time to do it more yeah well I know a digital currency front I mean well one of the things we should point out to everybody who's watching and listening is that we're already three quarters of the way down the digital currency pipeline because there isn't really much difference between a credit card or a bank card and digital currency and the reason I say there's not much difference is because when you use a credit card or a bank card to make a transaction there's a digital record of the transaction and then that digital record can be brokered and so far mostly it's brokered to other corporations which isn't as totalitarian as it might be because so far most corporations just want your money so they can sell you things now that can be problematic because you can have things pushed on you by what do you call corporations that are going a little bit farther than they should that you don't really need or want but at least you get something out of the bargain but once we're fully digital in our currency that'll mean the government will be able to track absolutely every bloody thing you ever do and also be able to do things like they're already doing in China so they the Chinese government has put expiry dates on some digital currency so they you know if they need to have the population spend more let's say because there is a recession they could just put an edict that would make sure that your money depreciated by 2% every month so that that would be an impetus to spending and they could do the reverse if they wanted you to save and so it means it means in potential the emergence of a system for comprehensive control that's so complete that we can barely imagine it and you know we might say well isn't that paranoid and I would say look we still think we were in a covid epidemic what we were really in was an epidemic of imitating the Chinese communists and we ran to imitate them as fast as we possibly could and that Chinese communist regime they just reelected Xi Jinping the other day with a 2952 to zero margin for the next five years the probability that he's president for life is extraordinarily high and so we are in danger of using the Chinese communist party and its vaunted efficiencies on the energy and environment front as a model for totalitarian governance across the world you know we thought when we integrated China into the world economy that the Chinese would turn into Western Western democracy but what's happening instead I would say is that because we've invited the Chinese to the table we're turning into the CCP yeah and people are certainly not and we're doing it under the guise of this idiot protect the virginal planet environmentalism that's all motivated by this what would you say fear mongering apocalypse apocalypse that's probably the fundamental that's probably the fundamental question of our time so that's why we have to say no to all of these things we have to say no to CBDCs we have to say no to digital identity we have to say no to 15-minute cities because they're all the same thing but it's problematic it's hard in Western society in the mind of modern men nowadays to tell them that you know those nice little pretexts that they use to sell this to us are not actually the truth we need a return to real ethical debate about where we want to go as a civilization and that's why it's so important I think what you are trying to do also with an alternative to something like the world economic forum because those discussions are not being held we are being sold lies we are being sold false premises pretext and we are forced to debate within that circle of lies oftentimes and it's exact same thing with the Dutch farmers you know that's why they're all all these subjects are related to each other because they're all a matter of are we going to give up our freedom for a bit of convenience or for you know those nice words that they try to sell us and I think the answer should be absolutely not but it's hard yeah yeah well and then on the digital currency front and evil turn to this alternative that you described in a minute on the digital currency front I think something like a digital currency is inevitable because we're already three quarters of the way there and the only real alternative I can see to the top down centralized digital currency that's being offered by the by the governments in collusion let's say with the WEF is going to be something like a decentralized system and it looks to me like the best decentralized system that's in place for currency at the moment is Bitcoin and you know I don't know if Bitcoin's the solution but I don't think any of the other electronic coins digital currencies have the same advantages or the same genuine radical decentralization as Bitcoin and then you know you mentioned this alternative to the WEF that has been generated in the UK so I'm going to release the statement of vision for that enterprise on my youtube channel tomorrow that's March 13th I'm not sure when this will air you know and one of the things we're working through is what the story that might unite us might be and the story that we're being presented right now is that human activity especially at the industrial level is intrinsically destructive in relationship to pristine nature and has to be limited by force if necessary because there's apocalyptic emergency at hand and I do not believe for a moment that there is a single apocalyptic emergency at hand there may be a multitude of them in many different directions but to assume that it's a mere consequence let's say of nitrogen overproduction or carbon overproduction is a radical over simplification of pathological magnitude and I also don't believe the idea that limits to growth that are opposed from the top down or the only way that human beings can manage what would you say harmonious relationships with the broader bio-sphere I think instead that if we got our structures of governance put in place properly like they generally are in free western countries that people could cooperate well enough so that everyone could be rich including the absolutely poor around the world and that rich people who have opportunity and a certain degree of security would start to attend to local environmental concerns in a manner that would make the planet greener and more sustainable I think so I think we could have our cake and eat it too and this enterprise you described which is the alliance for responsible citizenship is going to have its inaugural conference October 31st November 1st and November 2nd I hope you too can attend and with a big public event right in the middle that we hope to bring 20,000 approximately 20,000 people to but we're trying to put forward a vision of abundance and freedom and let's say environmental stewardship so mature relationship and so that's definitely underway and we have a lot of people a lot of public a lot of the public have already clambered on board I've got a mailing list of about 40,000 people and we have a large number of well-positioned cultural artistic business and political leaders on board as well we're trying not to make an end of the lead just enterprise for the reasons that we've already described and I think everybody who's part of the core group really is afraid of the lead just enterprises and also concerned that any attempts on the international level are likely to turn into nothing but an elite a standard price but we're at least going to try to put forward a vision that's much more voluntary and decentralized and positive than this bloody top-down tower of babbles centralized apocalypse narrative that everybody's being force fed now it's so it's so funny to me always how they attack the minds of our people really and especially young minds from both ways it's on the one hand this apocalyptic like the whole world is going to come to an end really alarmist story and then on the other hand on the individual level it's an anything goes story everything is relative you know there's just there's your truth there's my truth there's nothing such as an absolute truth you know there's no god there's no no real morality everything goes and that combination is so incredibly deadly and that's why I think it's so important what you're doing with this and we need to counter it yeah yeah what's absolutely right Eva well you you get the worst so look the the the the most intense and totalitarian tyranny will necessarily emerge in the midst of the most fragmented and individualized population and so and you see this on the identity front you know because the radicals claim now is that your identity is no is nothing at all other than what you feel it to be at this moment which is as hedonistic and whim driven and identity as you can possibly imagine and the consequence of that isn't freedom except the freedom of idiot whim the consequences that you will 100 be 100 percent hand over all the responsibility that you've abdicated to top down tyrants and they will control every element of your life you can't have a tyranny without fractionated individuals and it is it is a perverse marriage right of that intense subjective so-called freedom with this insane top down international distant tyranny and again we're definitely drifting in that direction super fast go ahead Michael that weaponized migration again with massive people coming from massive numbers of countries into places like the United States and all across the EU that creates that fracture not at the personal level in one mind but in the whole population you know nobody's going to be able to come together you're you're not going to have Dutch farmers in never and they're going to be able to stand up because they're going to be replaced right and then you're going to have a bunch of people from Somalia and other places that are all mixed together they'll they won't have any centralized ability to organize perfect slaves I mean this is very easy this is what they say they're going to do you've spent a lot of time in poverty stricken in war torn countries and my suspicions are I don't want to put words in your mouth that you've developed a certain degree of what would you say understanding of and empathy for the world's poor and dispossessed and I suppose the globalists who are anti-border would make a case that the poor people around the world should have the opportunity to come to the west and flourish and so and when you speak of the danger of migration then it's easy to paint you as someone who's you know anti-third world and anti-ethnic minority and but there is a real problem of poverty around the world and so what's your sense about how that poverty could be properly ameliorated around the world without that poverty without us falling into this like marginalized globalist utopian fractionated individual trap well keep in mind I've spent more than half of my life overseas outside of the United States more than half of my life in about 90 countries right so I understand that some fish just don't mix well in the same aquariums right I mean there's some you know if you had a the aquarium fish chart there are some fish like like let's say Filipinos that are green green green green yellow they don't get along with Filipinos as well but green Filipinos get along with everybody right they just they're like the universal donor in blood and then there's chetches red red red red red red red some don't get along very well with each other for instance when I was in the migrant camps in Lithuania I asked specifically do you have any churches and they said yes we keep them separately I said what's the critical mass in other words how many they said actually we have a critical mass we never have more than six chetches together if if you have seven chetches or more it's kind of a joke but it's not they go super critical right they become a gang right a lot of something that a lot of people don't understand is that you're not importing individuals you're importing like Somali tribes or Nigerian tribes when you meet a Nigerian like I was with a Nigerian a few months ago in Ireland and I and I ask him what people he was from was it the Igbo or whatever you know what I was asking there's different groups over there and you know he the the Nigerians don't come and get together with Nigerians they come and get together with people from their tribe right so when you have Kurdish people come in I love the Kurds I'm out with Kurds a lot when I'm over in that part of the world or Yazidis I've spent a lot of time with Yazidis up in none of the problems in Iraq and I met some Yazidis in the camps over in in Lithuania for instance in one still there he messages me stuck in a camp and actually he doesn't even speak English he speaks German so we have to communicate in German he lived in Germany before the point is some of these people get along very well others come in as gangs or they become gangs later right and this is designed to split us apart now of course we can always take migrants and then we should but we should take them in and the amount that can actually sort of dissolve within our or at least become time to time to digest let's say but this is weaponized the integrate this is weaponized that's what Stalin did in the halada moron 1932-33 and well actually before and after that as well that's what that's what mal did polpite always trying to get rid of these base groups that have some cultural identity the farmers you got I keep telling Dutch farmers because I'm looking at this from the orbital view because I go from country to country and I'm looking for patterns and they're very like I said we could go to Japan and you would hear the same conversation only the little details would change and they're trying to prepare the Japanese actually to bring in migrants and the Japanese are some are falling for it for instance if you go to Okinawa well they have a demographic they have a demographic collapse in Japan so you know the Japanese haven't managed to reproduce enough to keep their young population at a sufficient number likely to support their industrial enterprise across time and China has exactly the same problem I mean do you think Japan has any option other than to open itself up to a certain degree of immigration certainly I mean encourage the kids to have more babies I mean you have to get married and have well you don't have that yeah well very few countries have managed that you know Hungary has tried that quite assiduously and they've managed to stop the decline in birth rate and raise it slightly but it's proved very difficult for Western countries to encourage young people to reproduce enough to you know surpass that replacement that replacement barrier that's another problem we're trying to address with this alliance for responsible citizenship I was there last year checking it out and hungry I mean it's a clear problem it's absolutely true that it's a very very hard question to solve but the answer can never be a solution that doesn't work I mean the mass migration of radically different cultures especially to Europe has proven to be very very unsuccessful and something that the majority at least of Western well most Western countries are actually against but they are never heard their questions are never answered so democracy in that sense already does not function we don't have borders they are not protected and the consequences have been quite I would say quite detrimental for any major European city and the answer to poverty in other parts of the world I don't think can ever be let's have all the young you know capable men move abroad what you know or move continent even how are they going to build those countries up themselves so I don't think that it's a solution for Europe nor is it for example for Africa nor and also we're setting we're just you know there's this demographic demographic demise of course it's happening with Russia as well in many countries right not in the United States but but in some countries it's obviously a problem but does that mean it's the end of Japan no it doesn't mean that it's not it's non-sequitur to think hey they they don't have a sufficient replenishment rate so therefore we should bring in a bunch of Somalis I mean that just like where they that's like I have a headache so let me pour gas on myself right it just doesn't work so Michael let's turn to this tri-state city again because I'm still unclear as to its function and purpose and so tell me in some detail what the tri-state city is and and then let's turn to more practical considerations again on the farmer protest front if you don't mind so tell me a bit more about the tri-state city plan tri-state city is a it's a they've already mapped it out they're starting to build it now they have to take out your farmers for multiple reasons one is that also undermines the entire culture of Netherlands the Dutch will cease to exist other than in museums right and so like the Kool-Ax in Ukraine right and so that then you can take their land the Dutch arguably own or the farmers arguably about 62% of the land I'm not sure this number is a moving number and and I'm not sure what the two numbers are is that about right and yeah even a little bit higher yeah okay so anyway say 60 to 70 percent the highest number I've seen a 70 uh so you need that land to make tri-state city because most of Netherlands is obviously a farm and so but as you pointed out before Jordan you said this last year why would you replace the most efficient farmers in the world or arguably among the most efficient farmers in the world to start there's going to be a nitrogen problem all right but it's not a stick stuff a gift or poison gift is a German word for poison it's not a poison problem there's not going to be enough nitrogen as fertilizers we talked about that in regard to BASF fertilizer plant over in Ludwig's Hoff in Germany where I went to twice last year last week they announced reducing 2600 more workers you and I talked about this at length last year and they just announced it last week and they're cutting off one of their ammonia plants and and and so this is a there's there's definitely going to be a nitrogen problem there's not going to be enough nitrogen as fertilizers for instance a pig farmer I was at here in Netherlands last week uh he he was happy that he said his his system is circulary takes the pig poop and he fertilizes the Christmas trees and the paratries with it I think well maybe just the paratries he said it's circular so it's you know it's quite good and I said where do you get your pig feed he gets it from Brazil where does Brazil get their nitrogen as fertilizers you remember the gentleman we had dinner with last year an old CEO of a Dutch uh a chemical plant DSM he said Brazil gets their fertilizers from Europe and Brazil he told us at dinner they're not going to have enough fertilizer this year and as you know the United States get a lot of our protein from Brazil so and India's got the same problem you know after you and I met in Netherlands I flew over to Ireland and talked with Mary Lumic down on the leader of Shen Fane and all she wanted to talk about was equity and bringing in migrants you know and I didn't want to talk about food or energy so I flew over to London I heard the same story again I flew to Thailand and I was having coffee with the next prime minister I piss it I know him from old days you can see me and him flying around back during the fighting days and I have an office in Thailand and I said you know you've got problems you're gonna have problems you get you import 92% if you're not charging as fertilizers you only create 8% and that's 5 million metric tons that you may not be able to get sometime in 2023 may not it's unknown and if you can't he said oh Michael you know we export X amount of rice I'm well aware of that how much rice you export however rice is basically a nitrogen vacuum it sucks out the nitrogen into the rice and you export that nitrogen Thai soil is very poor in nitrogen you have to have that nitrogen is fertilized where are you gonna get it from he said we'll get it from China I'm like check it out you're not getting you're from China right now and you're not going to get it from Russia or at least it's very seriously in doubt if you can get it from Russia you're not going to get it from Europe where you're going to get it from you're going to be bidding against Japan Japan needs it too Malaysia cut off the natural gas I mean this is a big I'm looking at this from the orbital view from the orbital view we've talked about food issues before you're no more optimistic you're no more optimistic on the fertilizer side than you were a year ago when we spoke I mean you know with the winter hasn't been as catastrophic as we had bandied back and forth for a variety of different reasons and the energy crisis didn't come to well hey fair enough but you're still convinced that a fertilizer shortage so radical increase in fertilizer prices at the minimum is in the offing sometime in the next what year or two years and why are you still convinced of that Michael well as you know food prices are non-elastic I was meeting with a Dutch farmer just the other day at his yes 17 acres of greenhouses it's obviously massive and I asked him about that and he said yes I didn't ask him about actually about famine I asked him what he thought you know how's the future look with food and he said he talked about a hunger's note which in Dutch's famine right and and so and he so he talked about this famine and he said and I said you know what's the time window and he said probably four to five years and this guy has actually started selling electricity he just bought a generator from France a diesel generator and and he's a farmer but he saw that the the windmills and the solar that is all over the place here you know solar what months does that actually work in what starts in maybe may I'm not even sure but I mean there's solar pet you've seen them Jordan there's a massive amount of solar panels in a place I mean if this was Florida it'd make complete sense but you know the windmills outside of his office when I just met him we're not spinning so I said when do you sell electricity back to the grid I mean I see those windmills aren't spinning he said well I look out my window when those windmills are not spinning and it's cloudy I'm making money so he talked about he just bought he was renting a generator for $75,000 a month he said he's making a couple hundred thousand dollars a month off of it at that point he just returned that generator just bought two more and he just bought a third one from this one from France which he's about to install so he has the he has these computer screens which he allows he contributing to the grid is he contributing directly to the grid how is he selling the electricity oh he has he has these computer screens he let me video me it was okay with him you know if I published the video which I haven't done yet but I can send it to you but he's got these basically two screens in particular and it shows the the price of the every minute it updates so at any minute he might start selling electricity so as soon as it goes below this one line which the line is moving based on how much is diesel cost and how much the electricity cost at that minute as soon as it goes below that line he dumps his one megawatt hour or I think it was a one megawatt actually electrical engineers helped me out battery which he that met that huge battery dumps out in 20 minutes but while that battery is dumping out he's starting his generators and as soon as the price goes above that line he turns them off recharges the battery and so multiple times a day he's turning on the generators and turning them back off he's making a fortune he told me that that that generator that he's about to pay or he just paid 450,000 euros about $475,000 he said he should get a full return on investment in four months he said three to four months so let's say four months you know it's so he's already stopped growing some of the so he's good to know right right so he's concerned about energy reliability and also about fertilizer availability oh yeah right right got it got it so so I want to know a little bit more about the farmers so you guys indicated that there's somewhere between five and 10,000 farmers protesting can you tell us the nature of those protests like how many tractors are involved what cities are they in what are they doing to what effect is this having on Dutch society practically and metaphysically and what are the farmers plans? So last summer there were massive protests going on that were quite I would say for Dutch standards quite radical quote unquote and I don't mean that in a negative sense of the word but just the fact that they went out in such fast numbers was something that we don't often see in our country so for example the word folder culture is very telling for who we are as a nation that sort of signifies something like where a nation of compromise where a nation of dialogue you know one of our favorite sayings is like oh just behave normally then you're already acting crazy enough that is really typical for the Dutch so to have all these Dutch farmers in the summer go out and protest take their tractors on to the highway for example block the highway block distribution centers even go towards the airport and basically show our government who is boss because that is really what they did you know within a day we saw food shortages in the supermarket so it really reminded people of the fact that farmers you know produce our food they're not just businessmen they produce our everyday nutrition for us and they were really successful with those protests a bit too successful and then what happened was the Dutch state intervened so they sent police forces they sent actually the military to those protests and at a certain point they even started using violence and shot at a 16 year old boy that was driving away from the protest and mind you these protests are completely peaceful so we don't you know obviously the Netherlands we don't have a video from multiple angles that boy didn't do anything that boy didn't do anything he was 16 years old he was on a tractor and he was driving away that should not happen in a free western country and the fact that it did happen and the fact that we don't have a first amendment and we definitely don't have a second amendment became very very apparent to me what do you do in that type of situation when you are dealing with a government that thinks that it can take away everything that you have ever worked for everything that you have ever done in your entire life just like this because they create a crisis out of thin air and they say you have to give up your rights you have to give up your property and we're just going to take your land because mind you our farmers are not free to sell their lands to the market you know it has to go to the states so again that shows you I think the states true intent okay so I didn't know that so tell me that okay so tell me that tell me that again yeah so no that all these nitrogen policies the consequence of those are always either voluntary selling which like we just discussed is never really actually voluntary you know you could be pointing a gun at me from that room and then I could say oh yeah here's my you know here's my property is that voluntary no of course not you know that's that's basically a metaphor for what is happening with the farmers right now and otherwise it's going to be expropriation forceful buyouts if they don't say yes now it will become forced later on during the next couple of years so just that fact alone that they are not you know allowed to sell their farms to the market for maybe even potentially a better price should tell you all that you need to know right right okay so what effect is the are the farmers protests having on Dutch society practically and and and conceptually are the Dutch people you claimed earlier that the Dutch people are on the side of the farmers which begs the question and why do you have the government that you have you know if if that's so clearly the case and is there a backlash against the farmers protests and what are they doing to Dutch society like are they shutting what are they shutting down what's the effect on food production and on public confidence etc well after those protests in the summer where they shot at the boy and you know the protests became more and more heated the mainstream media did exactly what our government wants it to do and they started vilifying our farmers and you know they are trying to test the people's patience so when things go on for too long especially in the Netherlands people get tired of it you know the news cycle they're like all these farmers again the government starts saying we need to renegotiate like I said the renegotiations never lead to anything they just changed the tune but they their aim is their hope is that people will get tired of it and sadly that was the case so for a couple of months after the Dutch farmers were worldwide news during the summer we didn't hear anything from our farmers for the longest time and there are a lot of farmers that are still because you know usually that is a good Dutch mindset open to dialogue open to negotiations you know they were they were willing to sit around the table with our government again and then when the new report came out and nothing changed the mainstream media again started ramping it up and I think a lot of people got afraid they got fearful a lot of farmers that they had lost the support of the people because if they read what the mainstream papers write about them then if I were them I would also think that they that you that know that I had no support from the Dutch people anymore but I think inherently the opposite is true I think if you ask most people on the street in Holland do you think that this is right they will say no I don't think that that is right but they don't quite make the next step where they translate that into this government is actually what they're doing is actually criminal you know I don't want to do that they they're still stuck in that lie of well you know if there's really a crisis then maybe we should do something maybe we should should negotiate a little bit whereas I personally have made it my mission to say none of this is real it's a political decision we should not negotiate with people who are driving our farmers to well to the spare and who want to take away their lands their feasts you know if a if a thief comes into my house I will not go and negotiate with them and say well please don't take my laptop but you can take the TV are we good now you know of course you would never do that but with the government people expect our farmers to do it and I think that is the strategy like I said war of attrition they did try to drag it out so long well so if you can't negotiate in good faith because your partners aren't negotiating a good faith what alternative is left for the Dutch farmers and what's the plan I mean they they're they're bringing their tractors on mass to what cities where are the protests taking place right now well they were all over the country really during the summer and now we had a rally yesterday that was at the Hague and that was because the Hague is where our parliament resides and we have elections coming up in a couple of days those are regional elections but they are imported because they dictate what our senate looks like so if our senate changes in you know in composition and if the cabinet the current cabinet loses its majority then obviously new legislation will not pass so it is incredibly important that this happens right now and they but the farmers were very afraid leading up to this this rally that we had yesterday this protest that we had yesterday to even take their tractors because the mayor of the Hague said you cannot bring your tractors which I think is a massive violation of our right to protest because you know tractors are not weapons but they symbolize who the farmers are you have to stop asking for permission freedom is not granted freedom is taken i agree by any means necessary the the the party means necessary that sounds familiar these days they the Dutch farmers have to go full French you know the front what happens when you push French farmers you know the the the the French government is terrified of their farmers I used to think the French farmers were wrong to protest every little thing like you know we not go to France and you know the farmers will give you an earful and but now I realize the wisdom of their ways oh yeah absolutely you've got to go full French and if you play defense you're absolutely going to lose and you cannot compromise with this it's like you said it's like compromising with a robber you have to go full on and and be offensive and I don't mean kill people but I mean do it the way the French do it the French farmers aren't out killing people but they'll sure block the roads and terrify the government they'll terrify them at the election polls uh and it works yeah I'm gonna go back to France and learn some more of their tricks but so this is you know the my last hope with the farmers is that they will start to see this so obviously we're now gonna wait and see what happens during the elections but I I personally don't have much hope because sadly a lot of people don't realize you know that our governing party the VVD Marc Rutus party they say that they are right wing you know they're the typical neoliberal globalists of this world and a lot of people who don't read any alternative media will still think that that's true and they think that that's a fairer party to vote for so I'm I'm not hopeful that this time around you know that they will lose their majority actually so then the next question is what will they do what will the farmers do are they going to stay afraid of the demonization and the qualification that is going on in the mainstream media or will they say enough is enough we don't want to negotiate anymore and we will indeed bring our government to its knees because they have the menpower to do it they are just afraid to use it if they do it again I will I will I honestly I think that if the Dutch farmers were for example to block the roads to the the port in the in in in Rotterdam are havin there and if the fishermen will come from the other side and the dock workers will say we stop working within a week Margrota will be brought to his knees I'm 100% convinced of that because then they'll start to feel okay so okay okay so that's starting to get you know that's starting to those those options are starting to become quite radical and I'm I'm not saying anything positive or negative about that at the moment just pointing that out I do have a question though is that if the Dutch government has bringing the police bringing the police and the military to bear on the farmers why are the police and the military cooperating because my sense for example in Canada was that among the military and the police there was a tremendous amount of support for the Canadian truckers fundamentally you know because they're the same people all things considered and and nonetheless the military and the police did their bettors bidding which is of course what should happen in a state that's still functioning property but in Holland um to what degree are the police and the military as far as you can tell aligned with the government compared to to what degree are they aligned in a more true sense with the farmers and the fishermen and the dock workers so on our lower level what I've noticed yesterday for example at the protest as well the police officers that we have encountered were all incredibly friendly and you could just tell that they loved what we were doing I think that that is sadly the reality of our police forces the officer on the street supports the farmers but the the top level listens to the establishment and obviously those are the people that call the shots and so younger generation um police officers are afraid to lose their job if they stand up against it and obviously you don't you only need a couple of really brave and courageous souls to make some good shots in in those cases with the protest but sadly I think the majority just listens to whomever gives some orders and the top layer of the police forces isn't in the pocket of the state okay so so what would you suggest that people who are watching and listening in the Netherlands what is it that they could do to make their concerns known and how could they express support for the Dutch farmers and and the same thing applies on a broader scale there's going to be people all over the world watching this podcast what would you recommend to people who are watching and listening so that they can stay properly apprised of what's actually going on in the Netherlands given that the legacy media is corrupt beyond comprehension like how do people inform themselves properly and what would the Dutch farmers want to see a need to see in terms of support from people around the world so I think that the international support has been incredibly important to the Dutch farmers because they've seen you know that the world is watching and that they understand that this is something that will eventually you know not just stay a Dutch issue but will spread and could affect others other nations other people around the world so that support has been incredibly vital what the Dutch people can do first of all they can go and vote vote the current parties out of at least the Senate that would be incredibly important of course in favor of who in favor of who well true opposition parties there are a few left I will not sit here and tell people who to vote for but I would say if any of these parties are in favor of negotiating about the nitrogen crisis or and or expropriating our farmers you shouldn't vote for them that's that's very simple and I think a losing strategy to negotiate the power of symbolism is very very important very strong it's it doesn't take much to take your Dutch flag put it on your you know on your window and turn it upside down signify that you are a nation in distress it's become the symbol for the Dutch farmers protest for farmers to do that the trucker side exactly I think for farmers to see that you know that's a silent sign of support I think we'll we'll make them feel like they're not alone can I say something I think that's important yeah of course the the Canadian farmers they keep the Dutch farmers Canadian truckers Dutch farmers keep bringing them up they did yesterday again the guys on stage and whatnot the Canadian farmer example then spread to America which I went with our Canadian our American truckers all the way from California to DC I rode all the way across the country with them and now the Dutch farmers talk about the Canadians that spark was important just note and then I'll leave it at that courage is contagious it is that is that's really what we need right now and it's let the way on that one and it was really an important spark there were a lot of Canadian flags yesterday at the rally too there were absolutely because they understand that we're all in the same boat you know the world's upside down when Dutch farmers are protesting and Canadian truckers take the political lead I mean something seriously going astray well first of all when Canada is even interesting and you know on the political scene and I would say the same thing in some sense about Holland I mean there are a few countries I've ever visited that are more deeply civilized in the most positive positive possible sense than Holland it's an absolutely amazing country an incredible balance of beauty and freedom and order you know and that's so difficult to attain and broad public trust and and all all within that great acceptance of why difference and wide range of individual um um potential for action it's an amazing thing that you people have accomplished as people like I and Hershey Ali have been at point pains to point out and the same can be said on a somewhat lesser scale of Canada but then when you see the people who are in fact the competent hardworking backbone on the manual labor and productivity side the truckers and the farmers rise up and say you know government has become so intolerable that we can no longer do our job then everyone who's awake in the least whether they're on the right or the left should wake up and think oh my god you know the people who normally do nothing but put their nose to the grindstone are complaining perhaps something seriously wrong that well there is something seriously wrong and all if the Dutch farmers lose man there's going to be hell to pay because they're courageous in the extreme competent in the extreme and true canaries in the coal mine and I think the most likely outcome at the moment sad to say is that the the Dutch government will keep grinding away on its in its incremental fashion and it will pick them off one by one and they'll reduce the damn Dutch farmer population of 50 percent devastate the agricultural sector and that'll produce shock waves of dismay across the uh otherwise across the western world among those who might otherwise object and they'll also produce a terrible catastrophe on the food and tyranny front so this is a watershed moment as far as I'm concerned if this were a lost war I would not even be here they can definitely win but they have to go offensive they will absolutely lose if they stay defensive and you talked about the Poltercultured which is the the culture of negotiation and which the anthropologist who specialized in information who specialized in information more they will find these weaknesses in the culture like the Polter the Poltercultured which is you know fine compromise it that's the same in Japan that's the same with Canadians the strongest part of the Canadian culture and the Dutch culture and the Japanese culture is it's highly civilized that makes you highly vulnerable to sabotage well Michael you know there are there are simulations of this sort of thing that have been played out biologists biologists on large scale trying to account for the persistence of narcissism and psychopathy macchivalonism and so forth that that manipulative attitude and often manipulative people and what happens is if you produce a population of people who do nothing but cooperate they can cooperate like mad and that can be extraordinarily productive but if you drop a single shark into the tank a tank full of cooperators the shark takes everything and so on the one hand that willingness to negotiate and agree can be the driver of civil society but the problem is is that it opens up the it opens up a niche for the manipulative psychopaths to play a winner take take all game and they do do that it's precisely bikes exploiting the weak part of cooperation go ahead yeah that's why I don't mind in this day and age you know where evil is so prevalent to be called a radical I don't mind to be called a radical in the fight against evil and I think that is really the fight that we're fighting right now so to be moderate in the face of evil it means that evil will win and our our our country thank you for your kind words about my country because I completely full heartedly agree with you we have such rich history we're such a beautiful nation and yesterday at the rally when I was giving my speech I said this as well the fact that we have a government that has launched an attack on its own people you know that has turned on its own people to me is some of the worst kinds of injustice that you can find like imaginable and and and so we really need to put up a fight against that it's a captured government as is true though he's he's he's root does boy root market out to hear the prime minister lapdogs yeah there is this is a captured country the government is captured it has it cannot exist with this government I mean this government is captured by the wet they call it the weft here right and the weft in the CCP are co-sanguinated I used to look at them as cooperating but it's very clear that they're that they're so entwined that they're one at this point later they'll fight each other but yeah it's very important to to it's time to put your game faces on you know what I mean it's time to stop negotiating it's time to stop being polite it's time to say you out and that's it I mean you're going out one way or the other or it's got or you're going to lose and you're going to be slaves all right well that's probably a high note so to speak to end on very dismal and dark conversation in many ways and but it's an extension of the sorts of conversations we had in the past Michael and I do wish the dark Dutch farmers well I mean I really can't think of a more reliable substrat of a more reliable population in the world and so when they're upset enough to take their tractors to the hagg something rotten is going on that's deep and pervasive and I think people around the world should wake up and smell the coffee so to speak before there's no coffee to smell and we're closer to that than people realize and so thank you very much for your time and attention and contributions today and for all the things that you're doing around the world Michael and Netherlands and same to you Ava appreciate you talking to me today for all you watching and listening you know keep your ears to the ground and your eyes peeled because you should know what the hell's going on in Europe in places like Holland especially with regards to this protest because there's something brewing there that's a microcosm of a much larger struggle that's for sure and so we're going to turn now to the daily wire plus side of the platform I'm going to talk to Eva and Michael for another half an hour delve a bit more into their autobiographical history so I can get to know them better thanks to the daily wire plus people for facilitating this conversation and also for helping send Michael to the Netherlands which was very helpful obvious in relationship to this conversation and those of you who are watching might consider popping over to the daily wire plus platform to cancel the last half an hour of of our interaction and all right so thank you all to all who are watching listening I'm in Puebla Mexico at the moment thank you to the film crew here for facilitating this that's much appreciated and to all those of you watching listening chow and we'll see you in the next podcast and then we'll turn over to the next half hour thanks very much Michael and Eva hello everyone I would encourage you to continue listening to my conversation with my guest on dailywireplus.com