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That's audible.com slash SWW or text SWW to 500 500. Something was wrong is intended for mature audiences as it discusses topics that can be upsetting, such as emotional, physical and sexual violence. Content warnings for each episode and confidential and free resources for survivors can be found in the episode notes. Some survivor names have been changed for anonymity purposes. pseudonyms are given to minors in these stories for their privacy and protection. Testimony shared by guests on this show is their own and does not necessarily reflect the views of myself, broken cycle media or wondering. The podcast or any linked materials should not be construed as medical advice, nor is the information a substitute for professional expertise or treatment. All persons are considered innocent and less proven guilty in a court of law. Thank you so much for listening. How are you? I'm good. How are you? I'm actually doing good. Knock on wood. I feel like I hit some sort of curve or pivot or shift in mood, I should say. I was actually able to read some of people's messages that they sent and texts and stuff. People are so incredibly lovely and kind and uplifting. Now I'm just like, why did I wait so fucking long to do this? It's something that I have to assess and look at that like part of this recovery for you Tiffany is also accepting all the joy that you deserve. It's not just about sitting with the pain, it's also about allowing people to love you, allowing people to support you, allowing me to ask for help, allowing me to be proud of myself without feeling guilty. I got a message from this woman who went to church camps with me, probably like junior high early high school years. She sent me this message, she had just listened to the trailer and she said it had me in tears, remembering junior high high school you. I realized I'm just a peripheral acquaintance from that time and I only knew bits and pieces of your story. But I remember hearing and understanding that something was wrong at home. And remember that your mom would say awful things. You deserved so so so much better. As you release these episodes into the world, I'll be thinking of you, I'll be thinking of you. And remembering the young you, the incredible person you've always been and the brave person you've become. You will change lives by sharing your story, I'm sure I'll be teary all season, sending so so much love and support. That was the first message I opened first of all. And I'm crying now reading it, cried then. And then she sent this picture of us together at summer camp, which I'm so glad because I didn't have it. And I don't have a lot of my pictures and stuff. I have like one box just because of how things end up. What stands out to me in the picture is one, my beautiful friend that I'm pictured with. But also it clearly was taken at the height of my eating disorder. And ironically, Kaiser Permanente, who I talk about in the second episode, who my parents forced me to go to that kids dieting class. They also would be the ones who would end up treating my brother and I both for eating disorders. So it was strange seeing how thin I am in some of these pictures as I'm going through things from junior high and high school. One-size-started starving myself and exercising obsessively. People definitely knew my parents weren't Christian. They knew that my parents drank, especially if they had been to my house. But I don't, yeah, I don't think I shared that with many people. I definitely didn't share the full extent of anything with anyone ever until now. You said something really interesting in episode two about fragmentation and how the gaslighting really makes you believe these things aren't happening. And it really makes you question your sanity. But what you're doing in unpacking this, you're not only getting validation from other people who might have parents similar. But you're literally getting that validation from people from your past too. I didn't know how bad it was, but here is the glimpse that I caught. And there's so much healing in this space that you can't even anticipate. Like how could you anticipate her coming from camp this young woman too, like saying, Hi, I went to camp with you and this is what I saw. You can't anticipate that, but look at all that beauty that you're building advocacy too, because they'll know warning signs and they'll know how to speak out in the future. It's huge. Thank you. Yeah. That people even on the outside could see my mother's behavior and see how fucked up it was. The few messages I was able to open and read this morning what stands out to me. Firstly, thank you to those people who choose kindness and take time out of their day to be kind and send something kind to me. Secondly, it's really sad that so many people can relate to this. It really speaks to the culture of the 90s in early 2000s and the quote, heroin chic. Even like Britney Spears, we know so much more about Britney Spears today and her experience than we did. When I was younger, but I remember in seventh grade Britney Spears being 16 in that music video with those pom-poms in her hair and she was wearing a Catholic school girl outfit and I was in Catholic school at the time. The sexualization that I see now of her as a 16 year old in the media and the pressure to be thin, those things have always been around, but seems like the culture and the fact that we literally make body styles trends isn't super healthy for people's mental health. That has been honestly one of the hardest things for me to personally overcome in my relationship with my mother. So much of it was normalized like those chips that we used to eat that were like diet chips and they made you shit yourself. 100 calorie packs and weight watchers. Something really struck me in episode two especially in the car incident when you were saying that you were thinking of Bobby as a child and you really didn't even speak or think of yourself. You were worried about what your parents were doing and you were like, come on Bobby is watching, right? You from the get go have been pre-rentified by your parents in that moment. How could you think of yourself as a child? You were a parent in that moment because they made you be that person and then society as you navigate because you're taller because you're not afraid of speaking your mind too. People might pick up on that in like a social setting so they'll instantly go to you right after that as if you have no boundaries also. It's really interesting to see the way society receives you also plays into the role your family forced you into as well. I have definitely been pre-rentified from a young age. It just became a known thing in our family that I was essentially Bobby's third parent. I never really saw myself as a child. I couldn't often relate to other kids except for more of like a big sister role. Usually by the time I'd make one or two good friends it was time to go. So that was difficult. I now only have people who I love and support and who love and support me in my life and it brings so much more joy and peace that way. Attaching can be much more challenging when you've grown up in an environment like I did. Now being able to unpack a lot of this I'm seeing that oh I'm actually able to really attach to people and focus more on like the joyful parts too as difficult as it is to think about and get out all this poison that you're holding in almost. The weight is getting lighter. It's getting a little bit easier. There was some of that followed me the moment my season came out. All she's done is be incredibly supportive. She said the first episode is heartbreaking and also eye-opening. It helps explain why Tiffany is so empathetic and I'm just so impressed with her strength to share such vulnerable memories. I have some similarities in my childhood to hers and hearing her process and analyze those memories are helping me process mine. I'm so thankful for you both. It makes me tear up. Thank you to that person. She's not the only one. She's just the one that I have a message with the most so hers was sitting at the top and that's who I opened up. Okay you have to go. I love you. I love you. I will talk to you soon. Okay great. Thank you. I love you. Sinking the truth never gets old. Introducing June's Journey, the free-to-play mobile game that will immerse you in a thrilling murder mystery. Join June Parker as she uncovers hidden objects and clues to solve her sister's death in a beautifully illustrated world set in the roaring 20s. With new chapters added every week, the excitement never ends. Download June's Journey Now on your Android or iOS device or play on PC through Facebook games. In the aftermath of a shocking crime, people always ask, why? Why would someone do something like that? What could possibly push them to commit such a horrible act? Was it money, revenge? What makes people like that tick? I'm Candace DeLong, host of the podcast Killer Psychie, where I explain the thoughts, motivation, and behaviors of the most violent figures in history. You may think you know these cases, but trust me, you do not. Using my decades of experience as an FBI agent and criminal profiler, I dig deeper into the twisted psychology of why. Many of the cases covered on Killer Psychie I actually worked on. Like the serial killer Ted Kaczynski, the Unibomber, and Dennis Raider, also known as BTK. Follow Killer Psychie wherever you get your podcast. You can listen ad-free on the Amazon music or wonder yet. Alright, well, as sixth grade started to come to an end, I finally started to acclimate a little bit more. My parents also seemed to be doing financially even better, and they became even more ego-driven. They told me at the end of sixth grade that I would be going to a Catholic private school for seventh grade. I was told that the reason for this was my weight and bullying. They tried to use my fears, whatever manipulation they could use, and essentially make it my fault so that I have no say in the matter. What's interesting about my two and a half years-ish out of my entire time in school that I spent in private school is what a difference in culture it was for me. It's also very ironic that my parents had made the argument that somehow I would from their perspective receive less bullying from children in religious schools because these years were actually the most difficult and I experienced the most bullying and emotional abuse during these years. But financially they seem to be doing really well and that definitely seemed to drive their ego even further. As their star rose in the Auburn house and Bob clearly was making more money, winning more trips, bragging about the amounts he was allegedly doing, probably because his scam was doing its best at this time, they only became more drunk with ego as well. So they were not only partying, they would drink or do drugs when they're happy and when they're sad, whichever was the vibe of the day. In these years in the Auburn house, it's a lot of them partying and talking about how great they are and how they're the best. It's like having to be around one person at the party that just won't shut up and you're just like you're clearly so insecure and you're trying to pretend like you're super confident. But like confident people don't behave this way. They had this ridiculous formal dining room area and it had these two big, tough-did chairs from Arden Firmall and Sacramento at this fancy place. It was very much giving new money, like people who have never had money before so they go so over the top, so corny. They had this giant white couch with four children but Chad never visited this house. This white couch that nobody was allowed to sit on. Was it leather? No, it was tough to fabric. It's like, oh no. Like, if one drink were to spill on it, that's it. When the evenings, when my parents would be intoxicated, it's like they would get bored talking to one another about how great they were. Some my dad would call me into the sitting room and I'd sit there in the evenings after dinner or school or whatever and my dad would relay his day to me. Every meeting that he was in, every joke he told, anything that he deemed as a success, then it was going back in time through every accomplishment, how good he was at football, how popular he was, how hot his girlfriends were, just that kind of stuff. And then my mom sitting there talking about how hot she was and how fancy she is. Inside I'm just like, can't even fuck out of here. My mother's physical abuse and impulse control would seem to really fluctuate. I think a lot of that had to do with whatever substances and alcohol she was using. A lot of the times during the day she was often seemed hungover. She would be sleeping. Yeah, she was pretty much miserable all the time. Miserval when she was sober and hungover or hungry or miserable when she was drinking, she just was a very unhappy person most of the time. We got some next door neighbors who had a couple young children and I started babysitting with them and our parents became friends. Mostly they just got really drunk together. There would be a lot of partying. On the other side of us there was a senior couple that was extremely impressed because the senior citizen woman who lived next door to us, she was about 80 years old and she rollerbladed every day, which was so badass. My parents quickly started feuding with these people and other neighbors. It just makes it uncomfortable to go anywhere or be involved with anything that they would be a part of at school functions or if I was ever in theater or choir being on teams over the years. It's like they would always find a way to have beef with somebody or something would happen. It was always uncomfortable, volatile and stressful for everybody involved. I've often described being at the dinner table with my parents as the dinner party episode from the office. If you know you know, the interaction between Michael and Jan in that episode of the office is very much how I felt a lot of the time. Having to sit with my parents, even watching the television or something, somebody comes on and they're like talking shit about the woman and how she looks. A very toxic, misogynistic culture. I did my best to focus on school and things that I had going on in my own sort of life. Again, music and culture was so important in so much of my day today. Boys, to men, TLC, Spice Girls, Counting Crows, Dr. Dre, Snoop Dogg, Tupac, Nirvana, Sublime, No Doubt. My still favorite band in the entire world, Rage Against the Machine, The Fuji's, The Offspring, Ludacris, Missy Elliott, Destiny's Child, In Sync, The Donnas, Blinkwin 82, Technology also advanced and people started having the internet in their house, dial up AOL, communicating on aim. A few people I knew started to have things like pagers. It was a very terrible time for eyebrows, but a very good time for technology. I started getting into documentaries like Michael Moore's documentaries, Spellbound by Jeffrey Blitz. Bobby and I's show was always and will forever be Seinfeld. We loved it. I love it so much. It still reminds me of him. I'm sitting here drinking out of my Seinfeld coffee mug right now. I actually in later years want to Seinfeld trivia contest you guys. It's like my biggest pride that I have in myself. I ended up winning this Seinfeld trivia contest and getting front row center tickets to see Jerry Seinfeld. It was so dope. But yeah, whenever I miss my brother, I watch Seinfeld or rush hour movies or Adam Sandler movies or listen to Death Cab, which we would both get into later. It was April 20, 1999. We were out to dinner at this fantastic Mongolian barbecue restaurant in Auburn, California, called Sums. And the restaurant had a TV in the seating area where you would wait to be seated for your table. On the TV was video imaging of the Columbine High School Massacre. I saw it and felt confused. It had a huge impact on our society and it was sadly the first of countless school shootings that I would. We all would hear about not that Columbine High School Massacre was the first school shooting, but it was the first that I recall. Something that started to happen was my mom wouldn't let me pick out my outfits. She wouldn't let me dress myself anymore because I lost that right because I was fat. Especially if we were going anywhere that she would be with me, you know, if my dad had a work trip or we were going to be in San Francisco or somewhere that she felt like that she needed to impress people, she would make me try out fits and then judge them and would control everything. It wasn't like, oh, hey, this isn't appropriate. It was like that looks horrible on you. It was extremely upsetting and made me feel like garbage. A lot of this behavior happened in dressing rooms growing up. I still get so much anxiety going into dressing rooms to this day because of it and that's why I often now try and close at home. Thank you, Internet. She would always make sure I knew that I had to be taken to special stores and that I couldn't wear cute clothes, making it worse, making it absolutely as painful as possible for me. Again, trying to do this to essentially like believe me into eating less. There was a store called Fashion Bug or Lane Bryant. My mom would be having me try things on. She'd make me come out of the dressing room and she'd behave the way that she behaved at home, but she would do it in front of everybody in the store and it was humiliating. A lot of times the employees who worked at the store if they were like bringing clothes into the dressing room or when my mom wasn't around, they would be like, are you okay? Are you sure? And I would just say she's like this all the time. I'm going to say, okay, okay, let me know if you need anything. In early memory, when I was around four or five, when we went to some sort of social something and there was a senior woman and she commented on how cute my little brother was, how handsome he was. My mom was like, oh, thank you. Gushing. The same kind woman commented on how cute I was. Me or my dress or something like that. And when we got into the car, my mom's like telling my dad or somebody else, did you hear that woman? She said this about Bobby. This is so sad. This is so fucked up. Thing about this shit because it's like who the fuck do these people think they are? Who the fuck did they think they were talking to? But I'm like, oh, did you also hear like what she said about me or my dress or whatever? And I remember this as clear as day. My mom looking at me and being like, she was just being nice because she felt sorry for you. Okay. So, Juner High, it was already hard enough. You want to fit in. You want to be seen as cool or just likable. And at home, I was shit on and at school. I was shit on. In seventh grade at this Catholic school, I had a bully named Brett and he made my life a living hell. What's interesting when I reflect back about many of the boys who were mean as to me, they also seemed like they were the most secretly into me and I have a few theories. However, it was interesting about this Brett character because during the day at Catholic school, he would do things like table wide load sign to my ass or say, hey, can I give you my phone numbers so you can call me tonight? Knowing that he's the cutest boy in class, right? And then he hands me a piece of paper as we're waiting in the car line and I get in the car and I open it up and it says 1-800-GENY. Which was from a jingle for a Jenny Craig weight loss commercial at the time. I was so embarrassed and heartbroken. Really not cool stuff, making comments on the daily about my body, my size, my height, my feet, my nose, my hair. Anything they could comment on about my physical appearance and being that I was the only non-Catholic person in my class and that most of the people in said class had been together since preschool and also attended the same church together. It was a really isolated year. This was the year I think I started to develop an attitude problem. Basically, I started to feel like fuck everybody. I felt like the official sponsor of Catholic school was red wine. Anytime there was events at the school or we had games or anything like that, wine was everywhere. It was just like great, more alcohol, just what I need in my life. One positive memories I have from the seventh grade year was my volleyball coach. She would eventually become my cheer coach. She was a mom with a daughter in my class. But volleyball I loved it. It was the sport I felt the best at. I had the most fun on this team and that's definitely because of the coach that I had. I ended up making friends with a few of the girls on my volleyball team. I remember when I asked if I could try out for cheer. My mom looking horrified that I would even ask, but I went and we all made the team and it was the same coach that taught me volleyball and she was fantastic. We go to our first game. I was really proud of myself and during the game, I remember looking over at my parents and them just looking so embarrassed of me. After the game, we all went to a local pizza place to celebrate the first game. In this pizza place, I believe it was round table, they had a party room. All the flag football team and all the cheerleaders we all ate together in the party room. The parents were sitting outside this party room. While we're eating, Brett, the boy who bullied me every day since my first day starting there, maybe he could sense too that I was proud of myself that day. So in front of everybody at this table of probably like 20 kids, he says, Tiffany, they say that the Columbine shooters killed those kids because they were bullied. Is that going to be you? I remember just feeling so horrified. First of all, I am not a violent person and never ever gave any sort of vibe of being a violent person. I was a kid. I just wanted to go cheer for a flag football team. I just wanted to have fun and be like any other eighth grade girl that day. And I never saw those kids again because when I told my parents, my mom was like, that's it. You're not going there anymore. And it was so strange because I would tell them all the time about fucked up stuff. I genuinely, in my soul, believe that she did not want to have to see me in that cheerleading uniform. She did not want to have to continue to see her fat daughter stand on the sidelines next to all the girls that looked like the daughter that she wanted. In later years, she told me, you're just not the daughter I wanted. I wanted a pretty cheerleader daughter. She told me that later. When my dad eventually would go to jail the first time, she got very intoxicated one night and she said, you're just not the daughter I wanted. You're just not the daughter I wanted. But they pulled us out of Catholic school and they put us into a Christian school. I made more friends at this school than I would at most of my previous schools. My first day of Christian school in true Tiffany fashion, I wore this rage against the machine, gorilla radio tea. My new bully started picking on me and he referred to me as gorilla radio for a good amount of months and a lot of bullying happened on the bus. The people I went to school with, these kids also had mostly gone to school together since very young ages. Most of their parents were pastors or very heavily involved in Christianity, evangelical churches, charismatic churches. A lot of stuff I did not know anything about. Towards the end of eighth grade, I started to make more friends. For our eighth grade graduation, I made my first documentary. I used a video camera that we had at home, a very archaic one compared to current day. I interviewed everyone in the eighth grade class. I came up with interview questions that I made copies for everyone to distribute them. I started attending summer camp. They were often religious Christian summer camps. I joined some youth groups. Really I would just find any way I could be outside of the house. I have such good memories of summer camp and the friends that I made there. And one of my friends, Jet, we are still friends to this day. My name is Justin Jet. I know Tiffany Reese through, I first met her at camp. My first impressions of Tiffany were that she was outgoing and very stylish. She had a very cool style. There was a band that she showed me that I can't remember for the life of being what their name was, but she was way into them. They were a punk band. She was like punk rock before I knew what punk rock was. What seems out now with Tiffany is that she still is a style icon and still just is outgoing as she was. She 20 plus years ago at this point. She was outgoing, kind, funny. What's interesting to me is that Tiffany has always been who she was from the first day I met her. She has always been really sat on who she was. Very what's the word I'm looking for. I'm determined to never let anybody tell her who she was, which I always felt was one of the coolest qualities she had. Lou Perlman seemed like the ultimate American success story. A kid from Queen to became a self made millionaire and pop culture icon. He created two of the biggest boy bands on the planet, InSync and the Backshort Boys, and then squeezed them for every penny. But they weren't the only ones he was taking advantage of. Hi, I'm Sarah Haggy, co-host of Wonder Woman's podcast scamplencers where we unpacked the stories of notorious scammers and con artists all over the globe. In our recent two part series, so many strings attached, we follow Lou Perlman's rise from aerospace entrepreneur to boy band mogul to architect of one of the largest Ponzi schemes in history. This is the sinister story behind all those catch lyrics and choreograph dance moves. It's about fame, greed, and the dark side of the American dream. Follow scamplencers wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad-free on the Amazon Music or Wonder app. As the body image abuse increased, so did my mom's violent outbursts towards me. There were several incidences where she would lose her temper and grab me by the hair or scratch me, attack me. We came home from somewhere. I said something too loud, quote unquote, in front of the house, which is ironic coming from somebody who blasted music at all hours of the night and didn't seem to care at all about what our neighbors thought when it was convenient to them. She grabbed me by the back of the head and my hair and she slammed my head into the concrete. I remember feeling so shocked because it was the physical pain but also the extreme quickness with which it happened. She's so worried about what our neighbors think that she slams my head into the sidewalk. I got up, I was crying, I screamed out and then she was, you know, shut the fuck up. I got me towards the door. I got up away from her on the sidewalk. I was scraped up and I ran into the downstairs bathroom. I locked the door and she was banging on the door, open this fucking door, open this fucking door, screaming, threatening me. If you don't open the door, it's going to be 10 times as bad. If you don't open the door, it's going to be 100 times as bad. If you don't open the door, you're going to regret it. And to me, just being like, no, no, no, no, please don't, please don't make me open the door, please don't make me open the door. Being terrified in the beginning, I would open the door. Other times I would try to wade it out and sneak out when I could and wait for her to calm down. And if I ever tried to say something to my dad about it, he would say, your mom had a really fucked up life. Just add to it. Tell me horrible things that had happened to my mom. I would basically dismiss my feelings, tell me how she needed my support and how lucky I was to live with them. 8th grade is also when I started really getting into emo and punk music and going to shows. I ended up making so many friends through what we call the scene. In the beginning, I would meet a lot of people who were in Christian bands or Christian punk bands, a lot of churches in the area would host shows and they would be very inexpensive. And it's a lot easier to get your parents to drop you off at a concert when it's at a church or a church owned venue, even non-Christian bands would play at these churches and these venues. And it was some of the best times of my life towards the end of 8th grade. I started to make more friends and I became friends with the most popular girl in school. We were at the 8th grade picnic and we were playing volleyball and joking and I was playing with her and her boyfriend who was the hottest guy in school. Through playing this game of volleyball and our graduation barbecue picnic thing, they're like you should be friends with us. I'm like refer to her as the nickname that I called her, which is match. I am forever appreciative to her for bringing me in and her becoming my friend essentially made it cool for me to hang out with this giant group of girls and she made space for me and saw that I was a good person and I was a fun person and we became really good friends. After 8th grade graduation, this 8th grade graduation trip that a lot of junior hires raised money for and take at the end of 8th grade to visit Washington DC and New York City, historical landmarks, etc. Part of it was there was an essay contest and the reward was getting to lay a wreath at the tomb of the unknown soldier, which is a huge honor and I ended up winning this contest. It was very cool. On this trip there was a woman whom I'll refer to as Mrs. Price. Mrs. Price was kind to me. She could see that I was a kid that was struggling and there was a few times where she mentioned to me and tried to talk to me about the relationship that she had with her mother and the way that she struggled and I think that was her way of telling me that she could see what was happening without directly talking with me about it. I have really good memories of her and her support. She was my shopper on this trip. When we got back from New York, the parents were supposed to pick us up at the airport. We get off the plane and I see lots of parents holding welcome home signs. Their parents are so excited to see them. I mean their kids have been gone for almost a week, right? All the other kids get picked up. All the other parents show up. They determined that this other shopper once she lived closest to me would take me home and hopefully I had a house key under the mat or a rock or whatever. The feeling I had seeing all the other kids not only have their parents remember them, but also celebrate them and then my family not being in there at all felt really shitty. I also was scared that something bad had happened. This other shopper on drives me to my house. I go up by a determined I have a house key. I can get into the house, the shopper on leaves and there's no one home. Now I'm really scared. I tried to call my neighbors. They also didn't answer. It became night time. I continued to feel scared and I started calling 911 and local hospitals to see if my parents were in the hospital or to see if something had happened. The hospital told me they were not there. So I then called the police and told them what happened and that I came home from this trip and I couldn't find my parents. Eventually in the middle of the night. I got a call and it was from my mom who was drunk and they had apparently just forgotten about me and had decided to go up to Tahoe with our neighbors and party for the weekend. And it was just like, okay, good to know. There was this incident that happens where my mom, it was one of the most traumatic things and it was revolving me buying a homecoming dress and my mom saying all these horrific things to me shortly after that is when I was like, I have to start myself. That's the only option I have at this point. Otherwise, I'm never going to have anybody love me. My mom told me, no one's ever going to love you. No one's ever going to be your real friend. No one's ever going to give you a job. No one is ever going to give a fuck about you. She spent 20 minutes telling me this. Nobody who is friends with you right now actually likes you. They're all pretending. What they see when they look at you is that you're fat. This is my mother telling me this after I had a hard time buying a homecoming dress. She says, none of your friends actually like you. Nobody is ever going to actually love you when you're fat. And you need to hear that. You're never going to get a boyfriend. You're never going to get a husband. You're never going to be successful. The only thing that people will ever see when they look at you is that you're fat. She tells me this. 15 years old. And it's one of the most painful things that I've ever experienced in my entire life. And it fucks me up to this day. And it's something I have to actively fight against every single day. That lie and that attempt to destroy me. So I was like, okay, cool, cool, cool. I'll just lose 100 pounds. Some time around junior high was the first time that I had an understanding that my father could potentially get into legal trouble. Every day after Oprah, the news came on. My mom was in her bedroom folding laundry and I was a few doors down on the same level. And I hear her scream. I run in there and the news is going. And on the news, I see my dad's office building. I see some dudes hand knocking on the office building door. I'm showing them trying to go to Bob's office and knock on the door and get a comment statement from him. And I'm like, what is happening? My mom of course starts screaming at me like, you're fucking father. Thanks to if I don't remember, but she's beside herself, but like angry at me, angry at him, probably in shock. But like she knew what they were talking about, you know? More just like you fucking got caught. Her cash flow is threatened. Not like my daughter is seeing this, let's get her out of the room and protect her. Oh fuck no. It's let's scream at the child on top of this. This happens. I don't get the information. This is not the days of Tivo. It's a live broadcast. So there's no rewind and see cut that back. I would just love to know like if there's a way for us to find that footage. Do you know what channel? Oh, Oprah. Oprah was on. Yeah, probably. Oh my god, that's so smart. Okay. So I feel like it was Sacramento, KCRA. Because that was usually the news that my parents watched. It's one of the bigger ones. The broadcast was already halfway in process, but she definitely didn't know it was coming. And that is also very telling because they had already definitely reached out to Bob for comment. So Bob knew this was coming, but hadn't seen anything. So she's also mad about that. Also a common theme here because Bob was very much the type of person and just bullshit you. You're like the cops are literally holding us at gunpoint and he's like, this is fine. These people are just out to get me. He never, ever, ever, ever will admit that he was wrong. Ever, ever. You could literally be holding up a mirror and be like, you have egg on your face. Do you not see that? And you would be like, that is not egg. That's moisturizer and it's keels and it costs $500 and you're jealous. That's the kind of person he was. So in October of 2003, Bob was convicted of four counts of violating corporations code section 25110. So that was when he got a guilty verdict was October 2003. 2003. Did they mention when they started the investigation or when this occurred, what year it occurred, the actual crimes? It does not say when it occurred. It is discussed that the person investigating him during this time. Was it Jim Hudson? No, it is special agent James Becker. And he was assigned to the special crimes unit of the attorney's general's office from 1999 to 2003. Special crimes unit? Yes. Is that what you said? He was assigned to the special crimes unit of the attorney general's office, assuming the attorney general of California. Which would have been who, you know, who the attorney general was during that time? Bill Lockier. He was the attorney general from 1999 to 2007. So in this paperwork that we were able to access, the legal documents that are in the public record that we were able to get, it doesn't say when the crimes occurred just that he was convicted on how many counts was it? Four counts. Four counts. Can you read the counts again? Yes. Bob admitted suffering convictions on October 24, 2003 for four counts of violating corporation's code section 25-110. And do you have the definition of that crime? It is unlawful for any person to offer or sell in this state, any security in an issuer transaction other than in a transaction subject to section 25-120. Whether or not by or through underwriters, unless such sale has been qualified under section 25-111, 25-12 or 25-113. The offer or sale of such a security in a manner that varies or differs from exceeds the scope of or fails to conform with either a material term or material condition of qualification of the offering as set fourth in the permit or qualification order or a material representation as to the manner of offering which is set fourth in the application for qualification shall be unqualified, offer or sale. What the fuck does that mean? No idea what the fuck that means. Let's look it up. You reading that directly from the penal code? Yeah. The California corporations code 25-110 deals with basically securities fraud according to investopedia.com. A securities fraud is a type of fraud that includes Ponzi schemes, Pyramid schemes, late-day trading. It also can also include providing false information, pump-and-dump schemes or trading on insider information. Which would be like in the stock market like Martha Stewart. Yes. Insider information that would definitely have to do with the stock market with Bob's case it had to do with investments. Like the certificates of deposit, correct? Correct. Certificates of deposit. The example that I was able to find of one of the fraudulent activities Bob took part in, his victim was a gentleman by the name of Harry F. He was 80 years old in 2003 when he testified at the preliminary hearing. How many victims were there total? Special agent James Becker spoke with 25 of Bob's alleged victims ranging in age from 62 to 78. It's wild to me that he spoke to 25 victims. He was convicted on four of these items. Were the four items all very F? It doesn't say who the victims were except for this one description of the gentleman Harry F who testified. So you're telling me he had 25 victims in this case that they interviewed. Special agent Becker spoke with 25 alleged victims. Every single one of them was from the ages of 62 to 78. It seems like Bob constantly victimized elderly people. Harry F, the defendant who spoke at the 2003 hearing, I'm just going to read this. This is what are you reading from? I'm reading from the 2009 appeal. So Harry F went to see Bob about buying an advertised certificate of deposit. Harry F was not wealthy but had a few dollars that he did not need to live on right away that he thought he could put into a CD. Harry F told Bob that he was interested in putting $30,000 into a 3-year CD at the advertised rate of 6.5% interest. He did not want a 25-year CD because of his advanced age and Harry was 80 years old in 2003 when he testified at Bob's hearing. Bob wrote up a contract for a 25-year CD. Bob told Harry F not to worry about it that it was for 3 years and that there was no penalty for early withdrawal. Harry went ahead with the transaction based on Bob's explanation. When Harry subsequently received the paperwork for the certificate of deposit in the mail, he discovered that he had interest in two CDs with 30-year terms with interest payable at maturity. So he would have to wait the full 30 years. When Harry questioned Bob, Bob told him not to worry. Harry knew something was wrong after he received statements reflecting large amounts of interest accrued for only a few months of investments. Harry knew something was wrong after he received statements reflecting large amounts of interest accrued for only a few months of investment. It was showing so much interest that it was obviously a lie. His money that he had only invested for a few months would have that much interest coming back to you. So he sent something to Harry saying, okay, go on. He was irked and wanted to get out from the investment. Harry went to see Bob who told him he would have to sell it. Harry told Bob to sell the CDs because he wanted his $30,000 back. Bob said he would handle it but told Harry not to contact the bank as the bank would not know who he was. Suspicious? Harry continued to pursue the matter until Bob was evidently as irritated with Harry as Harry was with Bob. Bob told Harry he would get his money back if Harry signed a pledge to buy an annuity from Bob's company. Harry did so. Harry was anxious to get his money back. Harry was credited with interest on the certificates of deposit and paid income taxes on the interest. But never received the interest. Eventually, Harry recovered $24,931 and 26 cents of his initial investment after a receiver liquidated the company that held title to the CDs that held Harry's money. Harry lost time, stress and about 5 grand. Due to Harry's advanced age, he was able to testify at the preliminary trial. But by the time the actual trial started, Harry had passed away. And his testimony was introduced by having special agent Becker read portions of the preliminary hearing transcript and the introduction of the transcript. So yeah, that's just one of the things. Do they have any other information about the other charges? They do not. That was the only example that they gave in this of the things that he did. They do talk about his defense for it. Because he defended himself. Was this the time when he faked the heart attack or was that the second trial? It doesn't say anything about him faking a heart attack in here. Okay, I'm pretty sure that was the second time. Yeah, I've never, I didn't know any of that. So I'm just processing. Do you think that that's something your mom knew all about? I'm wondering if she was the type of person to have purposefully ignore it. So she didn't have to confront it. The person we spoke to, the anonymous person said that he couldn't have done any of the paperwork without her that she was doing all the paperwork on his behalf. And before that, I used to help them with paperwork and stuff. So how the fuck do you have no idea? You're telling me they never questioned her. She never read the paper. She wasn't a child. That was what she would do too when I was working there. She would come in to do the insurance paperwork to send the billing into the insurance. Yeah, she's foolish. I just don't know how she got away with fucking being a part of it. Because she probably gave him information. I don't know. Maybe. I don't know. Bob testified on his own behalf. And he had four convictions in 2003. When Bob was asked for his understanding of the nature of his offenses, he gave a garbled explanation suggesting the Department of Corporations erroneously considered CDs to be securities despite Bob's status as an FDIC broker. Bob claimed the Department of Corporations singled him out for prosecution. Which really goes to show you how he was always saying that everybody's out to get him. A fucking witch hunt. Yeah, the Department of Corporations just saw ya and was like, we're gonna get this guy for nothing. We saw how great he was doing. That's literally what he said. He said it was because he had one number one salesman of the year. That's why they were doing it. Because this is this 2002 or 2002. 2002. 2001, 2002. Okay. Yeah. 2002 is the year when they came to the house and I first heard about this. Bob went on to explain that his sale of CDs to Harry and claimed he had discussed the 25 year term with him. And Bob claims that Harry could liquidate at any time. He also testified that there was no such thing as a three year CD and said that he was paid a 3% commission for the sale to Harry. He would have made 3% you're saying? Yes. This season on something was wrong. I hear my mom start to throw up on the floor. I go down the stairs, my mom is screaming at me, stuff about my dad and he's fucked everything up and they're gonna lose everything and we're all fucked. In August of 2007, Sheriff Hudson executed a search warrant at the store. Hudson sees hundreds of medical assistance supplies. I don't remember the full message back but I remember it included the phrase, the last time I saw him, the police were removing him from my house so this doesn't surprise me. Today is Friday, April 14th, 2023 and I am going to go through a box of stuff from my childhood that I haven't looked at in a really long time and see if it helps bring back any memories. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time, stay safe friends. Something was wrong is a broken cycle media production created and hosted by me, Tiffany Ries. 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