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Good morning, good morning, listener. Good morning, listener. It's crowded on the 605 and the weather looks balmy. It's bumper to bumble. Well, what's it look like up in the cocktail? We're all gonna be here. Have of yourself a great weekend. It's an all-new smartless. I'm just going to be here. Smart. Blast. Jason, why do you look like you're skiing? You look like you're skiing. Well, because I just dropped the kids off at school. It's cold out. You know, we're going to have. We're going to have temperatures below freezing here in Southern California this. I heard that that's not not below freezing, but it's going to be cold, right? Yeah, below freezing in parts of our great city. Wow. That's what they said. I can't wait for that. The L.A. time says. I don't know if you guys read that. You feel a stains. You know, first of all, I argue with Scotty all the time. He's like, I like when he gets super cold here because he's like, I hate it. Where's the sun? It's like the sun's going to happen for eight months, and it's going to be 110 degrees. So can we enjoy like the boy agree with you? Nothing worse than sweating on Christmas day here in Los Angeles. Hey, Jay, did you get, you know, plus you get to accessorize and when it's cold, like, like the little hat you guys just shame me on. Yeah, you're just wondering what you just looked like you were taking a break from the slow. So it's not a good run. Looks like you had a couple good runs. I came into warm up. Yeah. Hey, Jay, did you know, is Jason's birthday a while ago as we all know? I know. I can generate. Did you? And I finally sent you my present. You got my present. So, you know, I often tell me what I'm playing and I'm always jealous of how much money will has. And then also how much it spends on himself. And particularly in fashion, he's fond of Laura Piano or Piana, whatever it is. Laura Piana, but this is good. Yeah, who that is. Well, it's really expensive. And so he sends over two boxes of. Of this. Oh, there was in those boxes. Yeah. And then you know, brown sort of that. And I think, oh, well, this makes sense because he feels bad about flaking on my. But they dinner that you guys want to. Yeah, because I was sick claims to be sick or because there still doesn't look or sound sick. And then he flaked again on. And a golf yesterday morning with the days because. Yeah, still doesn't look sick or sick. And by the way, it should be noted. Also, I have a year ago for Christmas gave you something from Laura Piana. Yeah. So let's just start with the nice part, which is, you know, what was it? Was it sweater? It's sweater. Thanks. Yeah. Thanks. Probably returned it. Anyway, so I open up these things and what's in the box, Sean? Three tubes of Pringles. Yeah. And one box. And then in the other one, there's just shit from his terrible pantry, which is nothing but Oreos and Fritos. And you know what? And he said to me when he said he was going to send it to you that he goes, and now it's fucking stuck in your house. And now you're going to have to eat. I know. I throw it out. I throw it in the trash. I throw it in the house. I throw it in the house. I throw it in the house. This is what you did in fact you're in is that you you got a grin out of me, but you got you got rage and fire from my wife. You know, is all about, you know, well, listen, if we got a gift for him, he's got a better get you a nice gift. You know, and then and then so she saw the box. She's like, oh, this is so good. Good for him. You know what? He's good for him. And then she saw this just reroute it to my house. You first off, you poke the bear. You know what? She sounds like she needs to lighten up. First of all, well, okay, and talk to my language. So, so you know, right off the bat, she needs to lighten up. I did get you a nice. I think you nice gift. I got her real nice gift for her birthday. Well, we're not talking. Well, back up to me. Where is my nice gift? It's it's dude. It was mine. It was mine is from both of us. Oh, I'm looking at it. Yeah. Thanks. No, it's the gift of give. I don't need gifts actually. I'm just I'm just. I'm just. You expressly said you expressly said. What did I get you, Jane? You got me a beautiful, beautiful spa day. Yeah. And you know, I like to keep my myself well massaged and hydrated. Does it remind you of being on that school bus just cruising along the LA city streets giving each other massage massage bus. I got to be in jail by now. Right? The guy who ran that. Who ran the kitty massage bus? Yeah. I think that they might have taken a look at him. The guy who started the experimental school was the first red flag. Yeah. Hey, by the way, should we should be pointed out how excited are you guys about today is the big March day opening. Yes, it is. I think it's called merch day. Is it called merch day officially called merch day? We should call it merch madness. Oh, God. That's so good. Madness is great. So merch madness is happening at at the Wondry shop, right? What is it? W W W W W W dot one tree shop dot com slash W W W dot I think nowadays you can just you can just click the address thing just one tree shop dot com slash smartless. One tree shop way would say one more time. What is it? One re shop dot com slash smartless W O N D E R Y S H O P dot com slash smartless. And that's where you get all like what do you get you get t shirts phone cases go water bottles. By the way, we have so many look at this. We got this look at my new look at the new phone. You can't use it. We can't use any of this stuff. Imagine walking around with a smartless phone case. I wear a smartless t shirt all the time. You can't do that. Why is your on smart list? Yeah, but let me tell you everybody who is going to see him in the living room and then the TV. The guys of Chinchin will say, hey, she's bagged out of here. He pulls outside of Chinchin. He doesn't even go and he hogs three times. He has a special hog. And then I raise my chair. I raised my chair so they can see the smartless logo on my t shirt. No license plate friend. It's a smart list. I'll put it on. I put it on the hood of his car and he put it in backwards. So people can see it in the rear views, you know, like an angel. But let me tell you something. I would buy this stuff. I had nothing to do with this. It's the t shirts are great. There's this any weird that we've got t shirts and water bottles and stickers and what what's going on? You know what are later the hats to because as a the hats are very. The hats are great. They're super cool. But let me tell you something really quick about the blankets. So when we were talking about it, they called it a throw blanket. I was like, I don't understand a throw blanket. Like it's a throw blankets like the size of just one foot like it makes one foot warm. So like can we do like full blankets that we have full size blankets that are sure of blankets are super they cover your whole body. You know what I like about that? Those blankets is that they're quite that they've got a little bit of weight to them. They're not weighted, but they're nice and big and they're on one side. It's that sort of. Softy like like softy flea and the other side of what is it? What is that on the other side? I don't know. It's another soft something. Yeah, it's a real soft. Anyway, the the merch. It's merch madness. It's a WWE that Wondery shop.com slash smartly to find some great stuff. Please enjoy. Shall we let's let's do it guys because you're going to want to talk to this fella for this could be a double session. We'll talk in. Okay. Now we've had some pretty fancy folks on here as and even a few that are the undisputed best at what they do. Goats. Sean, do you know what that acronym stands for? Yeah, it's good. All time around fun time. Pretty close. Greatest of all time. Our next guest is the goat of his field. And if you love sports, Sean, I know you do. This is going to be a treat. And if you don't love sports, sit tight because you're going to love this man. Anyways, got a voice you've heard your whole life a friendly face that's been on your TV your whole life and a golf swing. You don't need to see your whole life. He has eight Emmy awards. He's in the pro football hall of fame. Come on. The television hall of fame. What sportscasters Hall of Fame? What is the only sportscaster to have called play by play for the championship series of all four major professional Michael six Super Bowls eight world series two NBA finals. It's three Stanley cups. He's born in Brooklyn started in Hawaii. It's got to be. And now joins us here on smart list. Folks, please welcome one of my favorite people. Our national treasure. Mr. Will. Oh my goes. No way. Let's bring him in. No way. I knew. Yeah. Oh, this man. He just brings a smile to my face. Hi, Al even my face. You know, I show on. You know, this is on on one hand a tremendous honor. I know. When I go back and I look at the fact that you guys have done Spielberg. You've done. You're one. You've done. You've done the president of the United States. You've done cluny. You've done. You've done my buddy Joe Buck. I mean, the truth has to be told guys. So who got sick last night and who am I coming out of the bullpen? We could make you deal. We could not make you deal. Yes, so listen, or so we do. We do play some golf together. And. I'll do. Oh yeah. I've been threatening to pull him on this show for a while. And finally, our schedules collided because you are a little busy. Al. And let's talk a little bit about that. How do you. I mean, you must not mind travel that much. Now, I know you're not you're not you're not humping it on a on a on a on a steamer 36. Yeah, you're not in the back of the plane often, but still time zones and packing bags and leaving family and all that stuff. How do you do that all these years? You know, early on, I was so intent on, you know, doing getting to the top of this business that I traveled a ton, didn't really think about the burden of traveling. You know, at a certain point, I think when you're young and you're going to new places. You're excited. Right. And I'm not saying I'm not excited to go to Pittsburgh, but the first or second time I've been to Pittsburgh or was in Pittsburgh, it was fun because I like to get into what the city's all about and learn about the city and. And then you go. And then the 80th time is a little bit different. Yeah, yeah. The 80th time is, you know, make sure that you get a night turned down service. That's the important thing on the media trip. So yeah, but this is part of, you know, if this is the worst part of the business. And I've been doing this for. Well, 55 years now starting in, you know, minor league baseball and Hawaii back in 1968. We're going to get in there. And this is one of the great jobs of all time and believing. I don't want to come back in the next life because of God wants to get even with me in my next life. I'll be working in a sulfur mine in Mongolia. Yeah. Well, well, you know, one of the things that's so striking about you and it's so great to see you man and. You know, obviously you've called so many iconic games over the years, maybe none more than the miracle and ice you believe in miracles call, which is so famous. And I, I don't know if you remember last year when we played together. I gave you shit about it. And I said as a Canadian, I feel like, we know a lot of our pros, Gratsky at the time they weren't playing on that team. And you're like, just let us have this. Why do you have to. Basically in my face, you're like shut up. But one of the things I love out is that you obviously, and because I want to get into how you started doing this, you obviously have a love of sport. And the way that I confirmed your real love of it was the first time I went to I use my buddy, Lewis case tickets for a Kings game. And I go and I sit with my buddy and who's sitting behind me, but Alan is son and I'm like, on his off nights, just taking the game. He's taking it into the game. He's at a Kings game. And he's not calling the game. You're there as a fan. I'm like, this is a sports. What if you turned around and he was calling the game from this. Just in the sun's ear, just whispering. Will and I both know that hockey is fantastic. And I'm sorry we had to take, you know, the gold medal and even though Canada may have had better players at that time. But will I mean sooner or later your ships, your ship's going to come in that Toronto Maple Leafs will, will in our lifetime when a Stanley Cup. Yes, that's been a, you're in a desert right now, but I'm feeling the oasis will maybe this year. I mean, an a hands up, you know, in charge. Our buddy Shannie who we've had on the program, he's trying to start as he can. Let's hope. But, but it is and thank you, Al. I mean, to leave nation, thanks you. Gosh, maybe we get maybe we need Al to come up and call some of the games. And we're not tandem with our great guys who do it and that will be the magic touch, you know, like do you believe in miracles for the Leafs would be incredible. But I want to get back to you. You're just your fandom is so deep that there are no offnates because you're always watching sports right. Is that your true love? I mean, I don't want to put words in. Well, I've always loved sports and my father look, I grew up in Brooklyn. And how many kids can grow up within walking distance of major league baseball. The Brooklyn Dodgers are playing about a 10 minute walk from my apartment. So my father walked me over there when I was a kid. It's the first thing I remember in light. I walked into Evans field on a Saturday afternoon. The colors just blew me away. I mean, the green grass and the Dodger uniforms, which have been scully always described as wedding cake white. And the signage on the outfield fence and the Oregon is playing and all of this in Jackie Robinson is in the game and Duke Snyder and people like that. So right off the bat, I mean, I could imagine my tongue was out of my mouth. And I just wanted to be there every night. And that was the Genesis. That's where it started. I knew I wanted to do this forever. And you know, you can dream about something as a kid when you're six or seven. And then, you know, I was always confident that I'd be able to do it. And so I set my sights on doing this, getting to that point and got there. But I will tell you this, though, it's one thing to look at it from a kid's eyes and say, I can do this. And then when it happens, I look back and I go, holy mackerel, are you kidding me? You would like, right. And I have to was a great thing because you're so naive. You think you can do it. And then I went, boy, I need about 400 breaks along the way. But why, why, why, why was it about why wasn't it the dream to play the game? Why was the dream to call the game? Well, it was both actually. So I wound up playing. Remember in Brooklyn, there's not a lot of green grass to play. So our games were the street games, punchball, stick ball, ring, leave you, stoop all all that stuff ring. I didn't have access to, to really, to real, to real baseball ring. Ring of leave you is a game. That's where we'll have right now. It's a game where you have to, it's a great thing about it. You put, you put, you put people in jail, like in the basement of an apartment building by, by bear hugging them, holding them for three seconds, count that court, cork ring, leave you a one, two, three, they go into jail. And then everybody else has to extricate you from jail. So one day I extricated like all four guys on my team. I was the big hero, but I turned out to be the bomb. He said, cost us the game in the end. But you should have joined the Navy seals or the green berets. It sounds like the moment, of course. So that was my second dream. Trust me. So then is it safe to say that Vince Gully was the first voice that really kind of sparked your, your passion for it without a doubt? Yeah. So I listened to Vinnie was 21 or 22 when he took over. Yeah, those right when Vince Gully started. How long did he, what was he doing the Dodger stuff 60, 67 years, 67 years. And I want to make the great thrills and honors for me in my career was when they asked me, Vinnie was going to do his last season in 2016. And they called me to MC at Dodger stadium before a pack house on opening day. They tribute to the, the old Dodgers, the guys that I'd grown up watching play were there. And of course, Vinnie came out of the crowd went crazy. And a great throw obviously for me was not a way to hear Vinnie early on to listen to him as a kid to hear him all the way through when I first got into do got to do major league baseball. But knowing him, knowing him for so many years and he was, he was especially was one of a kind. He was the greatest that ever lived. And nobody will ever exceed that. And when you think about it, how many guys have 67 year careers in anything very. And think about Vinnie to it. Yeah, to the very end of his life. I mean, I used to drive around in 2014, 15, 16 when he's coming down the stretch of his career. And I be listening to the game and the game really wouldn't be that that interesting, but Vinnie would make it 10 times more interesting. And if he was selling a story and I pulled into the driveway before I opened up the garage door. I had to sit in the car, letting it idle and let me hear Vin finish that story. He was phenomenal. Nobody liked him. And it occurs to me, you must have played a ton of golf with them, right? Because you were all up at the same, the same golf course. Was he much of a guy play? I played. I I hacked it around with Vinnie. Yeah. When I first joined the club in 93 Vinnie was still playing a lot at that time. And one, one time on number 10. And you guys know you have to hit it over a repeat about 120 yards and so many balls wind up not going over. And you know, I had a terrible shot when about 40 yards and right down into the gully and Vinnie shit. They write songs about that swing. They usually said country songs. Right. Right. He was a wonderful man to play golf with, wonderful man to know, wonderful man to have a meal with. And I'm so thrilled and honored to have been a part of a part of an industry that he really sits at the top of. And it always be my favorite, Roger. We'll be right back. Smartlis is brought to you by Fandool. 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Extracting and really be all really be all but then so you're there and you're doing all this stuff and you have a love for sports and a love for calling sports and you know how do you make that leap how do you how does it kid from Brooklyn become al michaels what's the first thing that you go I got to take this step. Yeah what got you out to Hawaii started in Hawaii right calling my nearly baseball out there before that I want to Hamilton High School here in Los Angeles. Okay. Wow. Met a girl named Linda. Sure in the 10th grade. Love Linda. Okay. That's you love Linda. You know Linda. She's new. Linda my life. Right. And we are Linda from Hamilton. I remember. Right. We were. Linda. I was ready to go to college. We looked up some schools that remember this is in the 60s. Every school right now has a radio and TV program and right you can major in it. Not in those years. No, there were there were only a couple of schools that had had that type of program and we had moved from New York to Los Angeles in 1958 when I was in the 10th grade. I was in the 10th grade. We had a school in the 10th grade. What got me here. And so we looked at all of the schools and I liked it out west that didn't want to go back east. Love the weather. So there were there are only two schools that had that sort of a program at that time, one was USC. And one was Arizona State. And USC was going to be a commute for me. Live at home, go to school. You know, 10 miles away. No. I kind of wanted to have the full experience. And ASU in 10 p. It was some people. I said, I want to broadcast sports. They said, you come down here. We have a campus radio station and we broadcast the games with students. So if you come down maybe, you know, by your third year, we can get you into into that mix. I go down there and within six days within six days guys. I'm on the air. I'm doing Arizona State, Colorado State because somebody dropped out on a campus radio station. It was known as a carrier current in those days, which meant you could pick up the signal in the women's boiler rooms. Perhaps and maybe a block and a half away. That's as far as it went. But I wound up doing games. And of all things. I wind up going to school with a national championship baseball team. I'm a named Sal Bando, who 10 years later, I announced in a in a world series when I'm with the Reds and he's with Oakland Rick Monday comes in Rick is still on the Dodger broadcast. And when I'm a when I'm a junior, we have a freshman by the name of Reggie Jackson. So Reggie comes in. We had great football teams Charlie Taylor, curly, Culper in the Hall of Fame. And I wound up doing football basketball baseball. I probably announced 200 baseball games going nowhere on the campus station at Arizona State. And that helped me get my first professional job, which was in Hawaii because I at least had a tape to give to the general manager, a man named Jack Quint to whom I own everything. And I was doing that for giving me the opportunity to come over to Hawaii in 1968. Do minor league baseball. And by the time that was all said and done. I was doing everything over there basketball. Baseball volleyball. You name it. I'm on television twice a day. It was a size of minor league. Hawaii baseball. I mean, is that more than 100 people? In the Pacific coast league. So we were playing teams like Phoenix and two son and traveling and Seattle did not have a major league team at that time. Neither did San Diego. Denver's in that league. So the Pacific coast league teams would come over and play Hawaii. So our big rival was the Spokane Indians. And Spokane in those years was the Dodger Farm Club. They were the president was Peter O'Malley. They were managed by Tommy Lasorda. Now the players included Steve Garvey, Davey Loops, Bill Russell, Bobby Valentine, Bill Buckner. Bill Buckner. And I'll just give you one quick story from Lasorda. So Lasorda always took credit for my career. So our big rival was Spokane. So in 1970 we're over there. And because of travel expenses and restrictions teams would come over and not for three days or four days, but for seven days they spend the whole week there. So I got to know these teams very well. So in the third game of a seven game series between Hawaii and Spokane. Lasorda gets thrown out of the game in the third inning. You know Tommy Tommy's all over the place. Now in Hawaii there's no dugout access to a clubhouse. You walk 480 feet throughout throughout this out the centerfield fence. And the clubhouse is 100 feet beyond that. So you can't sneak back into the game like a lot of managers used to do. So Lasorda is gone. He's out in the clubhouse. You can't be seen. The next night he's so angry that he comes out and as he exchanges lineup cards with all people Bruce Freming who would go on to like a 30s. A 30s seven year career is a major league up fire. He gets thrown out of the game with the exchange of lineup cards for the game. Before the game starts. So there he is. He makes that walk again. The crowd is singing to him. He'd last one more game. Now the 60th game. He gets thrown out again at about the 60th. He's out of three games in six nights. He always tells the story about how he calls Al Campanus who's the general manager after every game to report campanus the GM of the LA Dodgers at that point to tell him how the guys did Valentine went to four buck or did this so and so pitch six innings blah blah blah blah. He tells those according to the sort of tells campanus in one of those calls. Hey, you know, hey, I know you got Vince really Vinnie's great. He's going to be there a long time. But there's this kid over here. There's this kid he's announcing baseball and this kid is this kid's this kid's really good. His name is is Michaels. It's out of my Michaels. You should keep an eye on this kid conversation goes on. They're ready to end the conversation campanus says to Lasorta. Hey, Tommy. This guy Michaels this kid you talking about. How do you know he's any good. Tommy said I've been thrown out of the last four games of sitting down the club has listening to him. So Lasorta. The sort of dying that on that story. You know, it's a little bit of an embellishment, but a lot of truth to it. I love that he got thrown out with the line of cards. I don't wonder if that's ever happened again. Unbelievable. Speaking of throwing being thrown out and you just mentioned Bobby Valentine, one of the all time great throwouts. Bobby Valentine. Sean. I don't know if you know this. The manager of the Metz got thrown out of the game and he came back in in disguise. He wore a fake more stashing glasses true story in Major League Baseball like in the 90s right now. That's a sure I remember that very well. You know, it's so funny. He's on that Dodger team, which was so good. This is the team of Garvey and Russell and Buckner and Lopes and they'd go on to you know when championships when they all got called up. But and I think Tommy did and I think a lot of the Dodger organization people felt Valentine was the best of the players. Really like Bobby kept getting hurt Bobby's whole career was injury prone. So Bobby had you know five or six very significant injuries. And so he never quite lived up to what was expected of as a player. He's a great athlete. And then it becomes a great manager. So so also you're there. You're in Hawaii. You're calling all these games. You've had all this experience kind of goes to that idea of like the 10,000 hours you're calling. You're you're talking into a vacuum in Arizona state. There's nobody. But you're getting those hours under you and then you go and you and you're calling minor league games and you're getting more experience. So then what is the big break moment where you start going on a national stage? What's that first gig three years in Hawaii. So it's the end of the 1970 season. We had had a very successful year. We launched this broken in the championship series. But we we drew over 400,000 people in Hawaii. So we were at we you know we were putting a lot of people in that stadium. Every night and it was a big big deal in the sporting news that a big story on Hawaii baseball. And the Cincinnati Reds were looking for a new announcer. I don't know what happened to the guy who was there before. But somebody in Cincinnati somebody. The man's name was Dick Wagner. Who was in charge of trying to find somebody to come in and be the broadcaster and he had called somebody that NBC who knew about me and said you should look at this kid. So I get a call from the Reds in November of 70. I mean I'm I'm so weekend when I'm doing five football games. I'm doing four high school games in the University of Hawaii. I'm doing five games in a weekend. But now they put me on a red eye after the fifth game on that Saturday night. They flying in a Cincinnati to be interviewed for the reds job. Now this is the reds coming into the 1971 season. They had just been in the world series. They lost a Baltimore. That's the Brooks Robinson series where Robinson is fantastic. So all of a sudden I'm in Cincinnati. I'm 26 years old and I'm going to get the Cincinnati Reds number one job. I'm going to a team with Pete Rosen is prime. Johnny Bench coming into his prime Tony Perez in his prime. David Concepcion Joe Morgan getting traded over the next year and sparking Anderson Hall of Fame manager. I'm coming to that team. Wow. Yeah. So it was kind of crazy because you know what was really weird though. I go you know in Cincinnati. It's like November the 16th and I meet the team or I meet the the brass in an office downtown of the central trust tower. And I walk outside and it's like 38 degrees and it's leading and I walk it back to still for so tell which is about three blocks. And Linda's in Hawaii and we have our son or babies as a year or two old at that time. And I walked by standing on the corner waiting for the light to change the freezing to death. And you know the colors in Cincinnati at that time of year or there are two colors. They're brown and gray. That's it. I'm thinking of Hawaii where it's all you know blue and green and beautiful and flowery. And I look into the window of a travel agency and I can see my apartment at diamond head in the poster and I'm looking now I look across the street to look back at this I'm going. Huh. I'm making a leap. Of course I had you know some sit on my bed that night they're going to announce the thing the next day. Joe Nuxole is going to be my partner. I can't sleep at all at all. But I'm thinking to myself at about five in the morning you know what I'll go I'll get up. I'll do this press conference I'll get on the plane. They'll never see me again. I'm going back to Hawaii and I'm not coming back. But of course you know it all worked out well I got on the plane. And then they get off in Hawaii and I go by one of those rations seven or eight hours later I landed on a little and one of the newspaper rags is there and there's the home a little star button and there I am on the front page. Islanders losing their voice to reds. I'm going. I've got I got a guy can't stop now. Anyway you can't go now you can. I know I could not that would have been the end of my career. But talk about two opposites. Yeah from Hawaii to Cincinnati now. But Jason did you notice something before you said did you notice something great that I just did in that story. He remembered the month you remember the day. Who does that sound like that's what I was like Mary Lou Henter. Yeah. I do the same thing I can remember dates and I can remember the actual day of the month. I do the same thing. The one trick pony guys so my next question. Hey wait a minute wait before we get off Mary Lou Henter because this reminds me I've never met her. Jimmy Burrows is a great friend of all of ours. Another guy you've had a great. The great. The great. The great. The fantastic. The over the moon Jimmy Burrows we all love Jimmy. Been a long time friend of mine. You guys know him well. So his book party and I you guys had him on. It's a promoter's book fantastic book. And he wanted me he always wanted me to meet Mary Lou Henter who was there. But I had to be back in New York for wedding that we can so I couldn't do that. But it reminded me of you know Mary one day I've got to meet Mary Lou. I think she. She's deeper into this thing than me because she she seems to remember like everything she was doing every minute of the day. I'm only good for about three hours each day. Just tell my sister Tracy Mary Lou Henter and now will our net are famous for this kind of date recall. Recalling days and dates. I can't do it on the same level obviously the Mary Lou can and I don't even know if I can do it the way out that like out. I'll just said the date November 16th Stover Hotel 38 degrees walking three blocks to the. I know that details important. I love the way Al paints the picture and when he puts those details in they make it more complete rather than you two Shmos who go like yeah I was there the other day whatever that's when nobody's interested when you talk because you guys are just boring and you're so self involved that you don't paint a picture. If you're real Shmo though you've got an incredible talent and you haven't figured out how to monetize it you know I was making money with it you're just waiting. Well I messed up I looked at it was 37 degrees that. So Mary Lou reminded me of Jimmy Burrows and I wanted to talk about Jimmy because I talked to Jimmy yesterday and I told him I'm coming on the show and he described you guys as my three sons is what he said he said those guys yeah meanwhile you know show on you really is like a fact he's like a father to me well I said to him and I show I was excited about this but I said you know I said are they in your will and the phone line went dead yeah there's enough room for us in that will always he's there by the way you know what Jimmy was doing yesterday he was out he was putting in a new mailbox piece the old one there was some such spill over from the residuals and the oil piece that they were dropping into the street. All right now this is going to be one in a series of questions that you're so tired of of answering I apologize but I have a question I have to yeah but you're off at dinner right well so you know how about the your favorite sport to call or the hardest sport to call your choice there I'll bet the hardest is hockey just because of all the shift changes and absolutely see because in every other sport somebody has the ball and the other teams on defense yeah and that is the case obviously in baseball that's the most important football for the most part is the case in the case in basketball there are takeaways and turnovers but in hockey you could have a change of possession six seven eight times in a minute yeah so to do hockey on radio to me is like impossible because your brain can't work around wait wait who has the puck and then in a shift where you're yeah your teammate play Carolina once a year Florida you don't really know those players who has the puck where is the puck so hockey on radio on radio is by far the toughest TV's hard but better reason it's harder on radios because you have to say where the puck is and who's got it all the time with television you can assume they can see it right and in basketball it's only 94 feet hockey's 200 feet in baseball there's a pitch and and something happens after the pitch and football is a play they are easy to describe in terms of the where they are relative to the field of play in hockey neutral zone just across the blue line may wear behind the net I mean you're you're trying to describe last the puck the puck is for ever going to somebody else's stick you have so many shots on goal that are blocked by 18 guys right only you know only 10 guys obviously with two goals you want to just tell the audience just turn your TV on turn your television now what is it is it easier for you to keep track of it by actually looking at the ice or you looking at the television like we are what gives you the best view of of tracking the puck well I've only scored you know probably 25 hockey games in my life most of them in the Olympics in 80 84 and 88 couple of any show including the most famous hockey kind of couple of Stanley well yeah I mean that that that that that that should have been the one and done I mean believe me I that was you talk about or I have 18 rabbits feet dangling from my pants during that game that was that that was the one game to call but with hockey you pretty much have to call it with your naked eye yeah where football more I set it up so that the monitor is right in front of me and I can look over the top of the monitor so I can I want to see as much as I can with the naked eye but every time there is a shot change on television and the and that's what the viewer is seeing I want to know what is he seeing in that shot change right so I've trained myself I've been doing this for so many years that I know how to do it it comes to me in second nature baseball is so vastly different because there's so much dead time yeah that enables you to tell all these great stories right so many stories yeah that's that's what I want to know about the stories yeah no no I have a question Al because I have a question about the art of what you do because I believe it or not I love watching football I think it's like a super entertaining fast pace is it great to watch it is and and so what's that sorry you said believe it or not so I just said or not yeah sorry but go ahead no I do know but the the the art of what you do is I assume this is why there's not a lot of al michael's and there's only one because the way your brain functions to to your point what you just said which is to fill this space like in baseball there's a space or even even in football there's like a long you know delay in whatever it's kind of mind blowing that you can endlessly have this information in your head to fill the space for the audience at home I mean I that's got to be like a skill not a lot of people have right it's a ton I mean I like and it really to taking a final exam every week and in the old days old days 20 30 years ago whatever you had maybe 15% of the information that's available to you now yeah what's happened now with analytics and all the rest there are too many pieces of information so you know it's wonderful to start you know go that this the the average depth of target and all I think you have to back off I don't think too many people in an audience of 20 million are sitting there concerned about the average depth of target right right I mean that is this deep deep deep inside has there ever been a time where you couldn't you didn't fill the space and you're just like I have nothing left like like it's so long like it's five minutes I have nothing else I have nothing else I'm out right now yeah but now I'm interested that you said that because I was watching the game the other day one of the playoff games and NFL playoff games and and you know I watch a lot of hockey and I watch a lot of European I watch a lot of soccer and what the what are the differences I know and I was thinking like is this because of the madden football games or you know the the video games etc the way that that not just in the game but in the breakdown in between at halftime when they go back to the studio for all the networks and all the different stuff the way they break down they talk about the nickel defense or what these guys are doing and they break it down in this way that I'm like at a certain point I'm like hey man I just want to watch the game why are you telling me about the the package and the guys coming into the same thing yeah I don't care I don't give a shit I mean it's good it's cool but I don't need to know that's why I didn't become a football coach because I didn't want to have to listen to that oh well you're you know you're you're you're preaching to the choir I mean to me I believe in the less is more theory yeah especially on television you're seeing it you don't have to scream the game with people right you don't have to yell the game with people yeah you don't have to holler you don't have to do it to me I always try to if I can speak in captions and ellipses you don't need full sentences to describe what people are seeing you don't do a radio a completely different animal you have to describe everything be somebody can see it on television you can see it and so I've always been of that mindset to try to call a game that way something fantastic happens say what you have to say with an economy of words and get out of there yeah I mean in Lake Placid you know I look into the greatest moment in American sports history so the game ends and I had six words do you believe in miracles yes yeah and I'm the hell out of there for the next minute because the pictures were so good all you do is you you just you just like throwing junk at the at the at the womb to try to what to overwhelm or or to be even in concert with those pictures you can't let it play let people exalt let people enjoy what they're seeing I think that that's why I'm first of all I mean I obviously for years on Sunday night when you started doing Sunday night football years ago it was just the perfect way to end the week because you you called it it was the classiest game of the week always with Alc calling it and now you're on Thursday nights it's the same deal you finally make Thursday night and night yeah and you just got this like you said this economy of words and you don't and you when an incredible play happens you're not like freaking out you're like what an unbelievable catch and then that's it because it's an unbelievable catch now which which which so there's two months that are the great great sport months every year right isn't it October and then I want to say February maybe where well January February it's a mix because you the Super Bowl is normally normally in February but all the games that lead up right January right but that but there's also other sports that are either starting or ending in both of those two months there that October and and February I think right right basketball and hockey started in October right yeah baseball finishes Hawk football is in you know the fourth or fifth or sixth week right and and common football is going full blast right I know the baseball months because of the musical damn Yankees there we go June July on September right right six months we'll be right back smartless is brought to you by better help getting to know yourself can be a lifelong process especially because we're always growing and changing for me I remember this one time I was in my 20s and I had this job with this really horrible boss and I knew and he kept pushing me around pushing me were kind of abusing me and I knew that it was at that time I had to grow I had to practice self-care and in order to do that I had to become self-aware right so I knew enough to to to make myself feel better in the moment and I pushed 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smartless back to the show now what stadium do you love visiting the most and what city do you love visiting the most who well as a home body there's no greater game for me to do than a radar or a charger game right because they can go down to 405 or that's ram you said you said Raiders Raiders no well the Raiders at the Rams that's what I meant to say Raiders they goes my memory or already it shot you see it's the off season you just go on a Vegas soon yeah right I'm going to think it about of course I am so are the a is gonna are the a is gonna move to Vegas they probably should that's been that has been going on for 30 years oh really 30 years it's a horrible ballpark it's the worst ever yeah the worst ever the old love and they've been talking about this for years yeah and you know it's kind of funny how the the giants and remember I did I left the register to the giants in 74 or 5 and 6 and that ballpark was the worst ever can't a sick park just a complete garbage dump and the giants threatened twice to move out once we'll might remember to Toronto they were going to go to Toronto in 1976 the bats was going to buy the team the brewery before the blue jays got these mansion franchises wow I did not know that there's something will didn't know so they they almost did they were saved by a guy named Bob Lurry and then it's 93 St. Petersburg came in before the Tampa Bay raised got their team and they almost bought the team and it was saved by a guy named Peter McGowan from Safeway stores wow then they went ahead and they built this stadium in downtown San Francisco which is beautiful fantastic you give a view of the bay bridge it's it changed everything they went from the worst stadium where you couldn't draw flies to the best stadium with this sold out every night this was pack bell and now leave eyes right well whatever it is it's a they changed they changed I can't I can't keep track of the right so with that you that was that is that you're do you think that's the best stadium currently right now it's all a matter of you know choice and you can argue it but yeah I mean it's it's in the Congress it's in the conversation is a place you love to watch a baseball game right and great let's put it that way it goes girl right all right oh yeah yeah whatever it is a Keesh now what what the newest one is what so far right and I feel like there's another one being built to anyone what do you what do you think of the like the sofys in these stadiums these incredible sort of like shopping malls that host sporting events I think sofys terrific I think did a fantastic job there and of course you know living in this city as we do we had old and decrepit facilities the Coliseum has been around a hundred years yeah the Rose Bulls been around around for more than a hundred years Dodger Stadium has held up a Dodger Stadium is almost 60 years old third oldest we needed a we needed a facility and and Stan Kronke built it and this is how all of these stadiums are now being built these days because they they try to take all of the land around it and then build up you know either retail or housing right or other you know or other entertainment venues I mean you can add an A wood right now it's kind of crazy you got so five and they can do not only concerts in sofys they have a smaller addition to that building we can do them the forms still exist across the parking lot Steve bomber is building a place for the clippers oh wow across century Boulevard they're gonna have concerts so I mean that's gonna become like right you know the entertainment I don't want to say the entertainment capital of the world but boy oh boy there's gonna be something going on there every night looking forward to the traffic now what happens when you're spoken like a true Angelina now what happens when you are when you're calling a game for a team that you look who's who's who's your who's your favorite sports team I mean you is it is it the Reds because you started back with them no no I haven't a affinity with member the Dodgers were my team as a kid right and were until I got the Reds job I had the Reds for three years I had the Giants for three years you know I'm I'm really kind of an impassive observer maybe in my heart of hearts I want to see one win over the other but I'm really not a fan fan except as will knows yeah and since I have nothing to do with the Kings yeah when I go to a hockey game I am all in on the Kings and when the Kings won the cup in 12 and 14 and Willis an amazing thing when your team gets to lift the cup just in case you're wondering I know I was there with the Kings one you know I'm such a fan in general so I was there I wanted to sure burn it into my memory so I can get ready for what was the company but you don't have to but you don't have to give extra thought to hiding your bias when you're calling a game right you're you're too much you're too much for that you can't yeah I mean be sure I'm really the only thing I'm rooting for when I go out to do a game is drama right yeah I want I want drama I want a game to go to the end of the game I want it there I want there to be in a lot of excitement I want there to be I love how on apologetic you are too when there isn't drama because because you know the audience knows that there's no drama going on right now and you're not insulting their intelligence by pressing and forcing some drama in that you just like well this game sucks no it makes it worth watching yeah no no no no you're selling a bad bill of goods if you try to do that fans no they know when the game is good they know when the game is great they know when the game is average they know when the game is terrible and I know you know I got there was a lot of talk about the way I did the Denver Indianapolis game which was a very bad football game in week four last year there was a terrible I mean every part of the game was awful tons of penalties no scoring and you know I just I couldn't help myself at the end of the game when Fred Gidelli our producer punched up a shot of the crowd is leaving before overtime and and then there was a shot there was a shot from outside the stadium in Denver and you saw another thousand people streaming into the parking lot and my partner Kirk Herb Street who I'd only work with a few weeks you know Kirk was still learning my sense of humor said I can't believe you know they're leaving it's over time I said they'd seen enough sometimes you just got to beat the traffic I mean which I think I think reflected the view of the fans yeah for sure what are you to say yes why we love you how you called games with so many of the great you've had so many great co-conspirators with you in the booth over the years I mean the greatest and I don't want to ask you to pick favorites but if you if you have any highlight highlight guys or moments over the years that just you know I don't know I mean you've had the greatest yeah yeah well you've had them all they or they've all learned something from you you know I mean who's who's had more more partners broadcasting than you probably no one well I probably I probably had over a hundred of these I've done things like motorcycles on ice and all that other stuff that you know I watch that with different people but yeah but I never got to do a game with Vince Scully but I you know heard Vinnie thousands of times I loved Kurt Gowdy yeah who was back in the 70s and I got to do the world series with Kurt on NBC because when the reds won the pennant and I'm there in those years the local teams number one announcer which I was got to work with Kurt on the world series so here I'm a kid and I'm doing the world series with Kurt Gowdy and we're coming on the air you know on in October of 1972 Saturday afternoon it's it's the reds and the A's in the world series and guys when the camera came on and I'm sitting with Kurt and it's a one shot of Kurt and they get a pant and a pant out and and and bring me in and all I could think in my brain was please God please God when I open my mouth let air come out that's how nervous that's how nervous I was but sure enough and then once he introduced me and a way we went and then there's like wow this is the greatest thing of all time God you can take me now but at least wait till a week from when Sunday which if you know and it's out of all of those people that that you've you've announced with their called games with is there one moment that stands out with is either like the funniest like mishap or just the funniest person that you've called a game with well yeah I mean I just wanted to go to a couple of partners that I want to mention that and then I got the that that funny story for you but Ken Dryden who of course was a great kind of hockey figure the great Ken and I did three Olympics together he was with the the miracle and ice was great by the way by the way now Al do you want to know one thing quickly about Ken Dryden here's a stat went to Cornell was drafted by the by the Canadians by the Habs but so he joined the Habs in the spring after Cornell's hockey season goes the play wins the Stanley Cup and wins the cons might MVP of this playoffs before he's played a regular season game and then wins the call during next year for rookie of the year the resident Montreal during that period I saw Ken Dryden with my own eyes as a rookie at the forum yes I did so there he was eight years later we we'd be together I did baseball with Jim Palmer and Tim Macarber loved it I had football with Frank Gifford and Dan Deodor for years then I had football with with John Madden for seven years or I had Chris commons worth a 30 years I mean I have had some fantastic partners but but showing us the question about funny Bob Euker Bob Euker may have been the second funniest man of all time top only by Don Rickles and we can we and Don was a great friend and loved Don never did a game with Don but but he we loved him Mr. Belvedere anyway so Bob I did an episode of Belvedere by the way with him yeah oh my god he was fantastic so you you can rely on doing a game in in Houston with Howard Cosell another one I forgot to mention the one and only and we are we're trying to you know talk Howard out of what Howard was was talking about because Howard always saw baseball with such a simple game they make it so complicated but Howard really never understood the game and Howard in this game is calling for a but in a situation where nobody in the world the manager if he called for a bun in that situation would get fired bases loaded no outs and yeah whatever it was it was just a ridiculous situation and Euker you're gonna try to you know kind of ease ease ease it down a little bit from where Howard's going you know and Euker says well Howard you know I understand what you're saying he really didn't but you know you got this thing and that thing and you know the he's in the bullpen and blah blah blah he reads science about eight examples so Howard you can picture Howard Howard Howard says he's gonna play with Euker now he goes okay Eukie I get your point you don't have to be so trucking it you do know a trucking and mean so chip and without hesitation Euker says Howard of course if you had a truck and I borrowed it it would be a trucking it right that was that was that that was that that was Bob Euker and the only other one was he'd be the base remember baseballs or horse hides right or they used to be none of the cow hides with their horse hides in those years and we're talking about Charlie Finley wanted to have the alert orange baseball fans could see it easier much like the tennis ball and this became a you know a topic of conversation so one night Euker and I are doing a game and it's an eight eight run game room it's you know it's over and when we start to fill time talking about that and Euker says well you know I just at the end of the day that could never be done and I said well why not he said you couldn't find enough disease torches so I mean this was this was Bob this was Eukie are you are you are you talking to anybody specific in your mind when you're when you're calling a game are you just or you kind of have a conversation with your with your with your color and answer um you know I do or do you think that you're talking to all of America like is there a perspective that that that that you're in when you're when you're when you're talking you know that is a great question which I've thought about a lot uh and I still don't have the exact answer to it because there were times when you don't it's not like you have a megaphone and you're talking to a hundred million people yeah you really have to think more in line of I'm talking to one person right and I've tried to think that way because I've done eleven super balls and I know you have an audience over over a hundred million people watching and you can choke to death when you come on the earth thinking about I'm talking to a hundred million people but I try to think to myself I'm talking to one and I'm also saying to myself you play mind tricks here yeah you have 330 million people who live in the United States of America a hundred million are watching 230 million don't give a damn right yeah half fuller half empty mind mind games now do you get to keep all those hands some clothes you get to wear I mean every time they put the camera on you guys in the in the you look like will are not up there with the Bruno Puccinelli and the bug in Laupiana I mean you guys are wearing like three thousand dollar off it's every day you don't get to take it home no I'll be as I buy my own clothes be as to close the gave us for the last couple of years have been not you know looks like army navy fire sales surplus so I'm not going that way so you're packing a nice garment bag every game I pay what can I tell you man you know this shit yeah go ahead I buy a couple of you know sport coats in a way I go I'll speak in a sport the one thing I want I you can't make this promise to me but I'd love to come over one day and just you keep all the blazers with the various insignias from all the networks and stuff in the wide world the sports over the the yellow and those one I love those no I had one yellow when we tried to find it we were going to go to a you know Halloween party or something and I couldn't fish it out of the classic imagine that you're at a Halloween party and now Michael shows up on one day there's a lot of these sports we look like a bunch of canaries best uh who's got the best dog or meal yeah the best hot dog yeah the best hot dog Dodger Stadium sells the most people will be surprised to do but I'm dead it's frankly to be honest with you how dare you the old the old Dodger dogs were fantastic the farm you're okay right now thank you well oh as as many would as many would say Farmerge on the Farmerge on old beef weeners eastern most in quality right western most in flavor I make a good hot dog I cut it up and put it in a mac and she's good yeah do you really yeah sometime what about us you know to me it's nothing better than a big juicy steak nothing yeah well what stadium service and I don't even you know it's it's well known I don't I don't even vegetables I just eat you know I eat meat I eat a chicken I fish I you don't need any vegetables some starches zero what's the matter with you zero I'm not I heard that of you yeah no you're gonna get a lot of like why don't you eat vegetables I hate them I don't like to look at them I don't know what to smell and hang on guns to your head you have to have one vegetable which one would it be if you had to have one a steak a steak wait wait now I bet you I bet you ready to out would you eat would you eat a wedge salad like at the palm would you have the well hell no no no no no no no no no no no no you're bodies you could you could probably sneak something into the middle of pasta maybe you're right some tomato sauce you would you would but that's a fruit well I like to make I like tomatoes the fruit and and but I'll eat potatoes that's a storage but everything else now the only time I came close is Michelle DeFoyer our sideline reporter for you we're in Baltimore one night now we had a couple of nights off we did a long day and everything and everybody has about you know four or five martinis and she sneaks me some french fries which turned out to be Brussels sprouts that were so deep fried they might as well have been so I actually put that down into my body and you know that's the closest I've ever tried in horse the Trojan horse uh-huh by the way that's the second Trojan horse I've heard during the I know it's the Trojan horse episode I'm here for I'm here for I'm here for quality control you know that well Jason Jason Jason is and his wife are they're they're like living up in this castle and they and they've eliminated all food and all they do is think him about is the eating nuts and cardboard and such yeah I know and so I sent Jason you heard the story I sent him all this junk food because I know how much he loves all ready in the trash he'll come into my house everyone said well he'll walk in and he'll go straight to the pantry and he starts going who bought this as he's eating it I just shoveled it much junk as I can get in and I'm like I got two I got three boys here who live here four actually so anyway um Al boy Al yeah you can just talk to you forever it's like hanging out with it when it is hanging out with an old buddy we really appreciate your time pick this up on the go it's really cool to meet you Al oh you're the best yeah you're the best you're legend I mean Sean I even got you into this thing I mean I was that was worried I was concerned I know how much you liked sports or Sean's become a huge football fan you should yeah yeah a big football fan he and Scott are watching football every weekend yeah um but but I I it's an honor to meet you I mean there's no one bigger in the in your field it's oh let let let me get your question on this and if it if it's too controversial we can cut it you can tell us but it's talking about the reds and we've got all this uh uh uh gambling now that has become legalized right in fact they're they're even making you guys you give plugs to you know the draft kings and all this other stuff on on air your dream telling these guys to go ahead and gamble now that gambling is kind of a partner of professional sports do you see any path to Pete Rose finally being led into the the Hall of Fame with a little bit of a sort of a uh well I guess the the past gambling is not that big of a deal anymore where where do you stand on that does he have your vote that's an interesting question I mean I now they say that I look at this way then I saw Pete for three years every at bat have known him for years what he did I mean he broke a record that couldn't have been broken in my mind he's in my Hall of Fame yeah let's put it that way yeah I mean he's one of one of the greatest players of all time so I know there is a real Hall of Fame and then there's the Hall of Fame of your mind and I don't know if he ever gets to the one in Cooper's town I you know it's people say it's tragic it's not tragic it's sad it's just a sad situation yeah and we'll Pete ever get in you know I don't know but I'm afraid that if he does it's going to be posthumously yeah put them in yeah the more easily differently they've started to become different right now but you know to me if I'm as a fan who's in your Hall of Fame yeah he's in mind for sure yeah just be based on what you did when you were there when you were playing did you did you have that record yeah you did did you did you do the great you know incredible thing yeah you did okay great and that's what he should be on and that's why other players are not because of stuff that they did while they were playing that affected their play and we don't want to get into that but well but there's also like we don't want to get in this either there's a lot worse crimes that we can all think of that would you know just about murder Sean yeah here he goes with murder again yeah you get such a bad rap yeah he just loves getting into murder L big huge thank you thank you and really put you a two-parter on this I know we could you're gonna have your back at some point now you're the greatest the greatest of all time al michael's geo at we're back on Thursday I'll see you guys there okay all right on the bell here now right yes sir I love it guys I love it and by the way yeah I'm gonna I'm spending the rest of the day I'm going over and rifling Jimmy Burrow's meal box yeah get us all spare us all yeah all right thanks al thanks have a great day bye bye bye that was really interesting I mean the greatest I mean I mean are you as calm settled and comforted by his voices yeah yeah I was gonna say sitting here just let's see them tell a story you're like you just sort of think just keep talking ill I just want to hear you talk but I touched on it before it's like he's a savant like it's crazy so then he goes he goes you know June 1994 he's making a day and and I was thinking and he goes yeah and I didn't want to embarrass because he was that I was like June 94 I was in LA because that was the same month that OJ went on that crazy ride in this Bronco you know I was here staying my friend Rob's place and that was also the nicks were in the playoffs and the Rangers won after 40-year drought in June 94 the Stanley Cup that was all that she came into my head I think I was nine years old there's a pill for that guy I'm I just elevate your feet late late that flat it's like I'm doing it's like I'm living in Bradley's movie the what was the movie limitless limitless but I got to have the pill you know I mean right no I know you're already broke so wait so but but I can't believe how long L Michaels has been doing it and still is doing it and like at the top of it at the top of it yes for how many decades that's crazy and that's sick of it like he's like yeah let's go that's like every week how many shows do you think he does a week uh shows like well I mean yeah well he's got the matinee right Sean um he does he does well now he does in football his regular skit now he's moved over he does 17 does he or do they do 18 on the on Amazon I think they do want a week don't they anyway but I think that the last week or two they do anyway he could he could do he could do three a day I mean yeah nothing slowing him down we played we played in this golf tourney last week short for tournament and we he and I yeah yeah and um I got to play with Al and our buddy skip broncett who's gonna get mentioned on the podcast this guy Jason and and co-crackers a great guy and hits the ball a million miles but Al is the guy that everybody wants to see and he we're out there walking the chorus and everybody and you just realize everybody man woman child grandpa everybody everybody wants to talk to al michaels because he's been in their homes their home life he's been your tour guide for some of your favorite moments and Jason stuff that you enjoy the director said that you said when you hear his voice it's like yeah it's like warm and cozy and it's like I'm just like a kid yeah yeah yeah yeah it's great to get you know I think I think like you said you can hear him do anything he's such a icon there comes it's just that anything right now yeah go ahead one I got one I wish somebody would play him and like and like yeah like that beach and some like movie yeah and what would you know those movies that are like you know when they play somebody famous they're called like they're called autobi autobiographic films kind of you just hijacked my buy for that. I just think you want you'd want you'd listen to anything that was narrated by Bye! Oh my god! Pretty decent. I think this is where we can combine. Oh nice! Maybe there's a way to combine! There's a way to combine! See again I go up and I put my body in a vice. Why do I have to go up high? Because that's how you think. You accused us of doing it now you're doing it. I know it's natural. Smartness! Smartness! Smartness! Smartness is 100% organic and artisanally handcrafted by Bennett Barbaco, Michael Grant Terry, and Rob Umbjurf. Smartness! Smartness!