My name is Jay Shetty, and my purpose is to make wisdom go viral. I’m fortunate to have fascinating conversations with the most insightful people in the world, and on my podcast, I’m sharing those conversations with you. New episodes Mondays and Fridays. Please rate and review the podcast if you enjoy it. Live life today ON PURPOSE.
Mon, 22 May 2023 07:00
Today, I sit down with Kim Kardashian to talk about self compassion and self love. Kim talks about her experiences as a celebrity and an influencer, how she learned to love and take care of herself more so she can have more love and compassion for others, and the challenges of being a parent of four and running a business at the same time.
Kim Kardashian is an entrepreneur, business mogul, and producer. She first gained media attention in her appearances in the reality television series "Keeping Up with the Kardashians," which chronicles the personal and professional lives of her and her family members. Over the years, Kim Kardashian has built a successful brand, including beauty and fashion lines, and has become known for her influential social media presence.
You can order my new book 8 RULES OF LOVE at 8rulesoflove.com or at a retail store near you. You can also get the chance to see me live on my first ever world tour. This is a 90 minute interactive show where I will take you on a journey of finding, keeping and even letting go of love. Head to jayshettytour.com and find out if I'll be in a city near you. Thank you so much for all your support - I hope to see you soon.
What We Discuss:
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We'll talk to experts in everyday people as we uncover some of Sleep's mysteries. So listen to Chasing Sleep on the I Heart Radio app Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. Honey, you did great picking this cheap Caribbean.com vacation! Let's hit the beach! Yes, and we should check out the pool. Yes, and I want to play some beach volleyball with you. Yes, and let's keep the margaritas coming! Yes, and love a cake or churros for dessert. You know we're getting both! I get more food, more drinks, and more fun for less money! Book your all-inclusive beach vacation at chukurrbian.com. Wait a minute. I'm trying to make everyone happy. I'm doing all this stuff for everyone else but myself. Let me just like pull back a second, focus on myself, and then it seemed like everyone else was happier. The best-selling author and host. The number one health and wellness podcast. On purpose with Jay Shetty. Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health podcast in the world. Thanks to each and every one of you that come back every week to become happier, healthier, and more healed. And I am so excited to be talking to you today. I can't believe it. My new book, Eight Rules of Love, is out. And I cannot wait to share with you. I am so, so excited for you to read this book. For you to listen to this book, I read the audiobook. If you haven't got it already, make sure you go to EightRulesOfLove.com. It's dedicated to anyone who's trying to find, keep, or let go of love. So if you've got friends that are dating, broken up, or struggling with love, make sure you grab this book. And I'd love to invite you to come and see me for my global tour. Love Rules. Go to JayShettyTour.com to learn more information about tickets, VIP experiences, and more. I can't wait to see you this year. Now, today's guest is someone that I've been wanting to speak to you for years. And I'm so grateful that I finally have the opportunity. I first DMed her in 2018. I'm going to show her in a second, saying, Kim, I would love to interview. What did I know? I didn't even have a podcast then. But I'm so grateful that five years on, she's in the studio. I'm speaking about the one and only Kim Kardashian. Entrepreneur, business mogul, and producer, Kim first burst onto the scene in 2007 after the premiere of a hit-e entertainment reality series keeping up with the Kardashians, which my wife is a huge fan on. That ended in 2021 after 20 seasons, and the Kardashian and her family announced in December of 2020 that they had signed a multi-year deal with Hulu to create the Kardashians, which began airing in April 2022, and is currently filming season three. And they're here right now. Kim is passionate about the fight for criminal justice reform and has been studying for a law degree through the apprenticeship program in the state of California. In 2020, she launched a podcast with Spotify, Kim Kardashian's The System, the case of Kevin Keith, which went to number one. Kim's the founder of Skims, Skyn by Kim, and in September of 2022, she announced the launch of private equity from Sky Partners with J. Simmons. Welcome to the show, Kim Kardashian. Kim. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you for being here. I can't believe you DMed me. I did. In 2000. Can I show you? Yeah. I want to show you because, uh, yeah, I, sorry. No, it's been me so long to get back to you. Do not, I mean, I'm not saying it, do make you feel sorry. I'm saying it because I want you to know how much I appreciate you being here. And so, oh my gosh. There you go. Yes. August 4, 2018, with love to meditate together, let me know if it's something you'd like to try. I would love to interview you. Oh, here we go. Well, here we are. Here we are. Yeah. I wanted to say this on camera. We were just talking about it offline just now, but your family has been so wonderful to me in so many ways. And I've had so many beautiful interactions with, with Chloe, first of all. She loves you. She's, she's, she's, that's where I first became aware of you from Chloe sending videos and clips of some of the really positive things that you put out there in the universe. And she, we have a positivity chat for our family. And so we put really sweet things to get us in good moods and motivated and start our day in a really good space. And so you're in there a lot. Oh, I love that. That makes me happy. Yeah. And she was the first. And then I recently connected with the candle. And she came on the show. And it was just beautiful. How openly she shared. And then that led to me meeting your mom at the People's Choice Awards. And then having dinner with her recently. And I was just, I want to say this because I think people just don't understand. Have you been to a Taco Tuesday? I have not been to a Taco Tuesday. Okay. Oh, sorry. No Taddle Tuesday. Taddle free Tuesday. I don't know. I'm getting it. I don't want to get in trouble. Your mom did the nicest thing. So my wife, my wife was on there with me. But we're both vegan. And so she had Chloe's chef make us a vegan meal. Yeah. And I was saying to you earlier that I literally felt like I was at my friend's mom's house. Like that's how she made me feel. That's how she is. Yeah, really beautiful feeling. So she is the best. She's so warm. She just loves everyone to feel welcomed. She makes sure everyone is thought of. And that's one of my favorite qualities of her that I will never get over and never forget. And always it's just how she makes people feel. Hmm. Yeah. Well, I hope you're for very welcome and safe today. I do. And I want to dive right in. I was thinking about this. You've been traveling so much lately. I feel from what I see on Instagram. Like you've been to Paris and Japan and London. And then you're going to be starting to shoot for the new show. And I just feel like you're always on the move. I wonder when was the last time you went somewhere where someone didn't know who you were? Or actually, was there a moment where someone said to you, who are you? What do you do? Like when was the last time you had an interaction like that? You know what? In Japan, it's like that. You know, everyone's really respectful. Even if they might recognize you, they don't ask for photos. And it's a really amazing experience. I think it's important, you know, just to listen. I love my life. I love everything that comes along with it. I am not complaining. But a little glimpse of that, I think, especially for the little ones is so good. Yeah, no, that's definitely a beautiful experience. I think it's nice for everyone to feel wanted and loved and then also feel unseen. Yeah. We almost crave both of those. I was thinking about it today. You're always surrounded by film crews. And you have like, 352 million people that follow you on Instagram. I wonder, do you ever do you prioritize time alone? Do you get time alone? And what does that look like? I do. I get up really early. My morning workout really is my, I don't want to say therapy session, because it's not like I'm really communicating things. But even if I'm quiet and I'm in my zone, that's my mental health check every morning. I love my workout. It keeps me sane. I can't say that enough. That's my time in the morning. Then as soon as everyone starts to get up for school, the madness happens. And it's about two hours of madness from getting four kids ready in the morning, fed out the door. I'm going to go to school, I drop off school every day. And then I have a little bit of time. I'd say about 20 minutes driving back, where I just blast my music. I don't take any calls. That's my alone time. I love it. And then I get to the house and I start my full work day. And I'm committed and focused. And then the madness of bath time, bed time, dinner time. And once four babies are asleep, and I just cherish that time at night when everyone's asleep and I can watch whatever show I want and just have some alone time. So I do take the time for myself. I think it's really important. Yeah, absolutely. You said something beautiful before we started recording. And I definitely want to go in that direction because you were talking about the different platforms and how you can show different parts of yourself. But you came here because there was something specific. And I'd love to hear that because I want to go in that direction with you. I love your podcast. I've seen it. And I've seen, I think I just love seeing the reels that pop up with just a quick message that'll get you through the day, that'll remind you who you are, remind you what you need to come across and see at that moment in that day and carry you through the day. So I think it's important for people to express like how they feel and who they are a little bit deeper and what's in their heart. And I think that's kind of what this podcast is about. Yeah. And I think, thank you for trusting me. I really do value that. I don't take it for granted. But the interesting thing there is, I feel like there's a beautiful statement in Japanese culture says that we have three faces. One face we show to the world. The second face we show to our friends and family. And the third face no one sees. And I wonder when you're talking about your values and who you are, what's the part of you that you think no one gets to see in all these other places that you want to share today? I definitely think I show all my faces. But I do think that people pick and choose what they want to take from you. I do share journeys of mine that have been challenges, whether it's like law school and different projects and how starting a business and all of that. I definitely weave that in throughout. But I think that anytime you have the opportunity to express yourself in a more meaningful way, I think it's always a good thing to do, especially since I'm just a big fan of you and what you represent and who you are. So I always love to share my tips and anything that I've learned along the way. Because God knows it is not easy. Like parenting is so hard. Family dynamics, relationships, it is so hard. It's really interesting you say that. Because when I was speaking to your mom, she was saying that about you. She was saying that you're the person that for anyone in your family, no matter how busy you are, you'll go completely out of your way. She was telling me about a particular incident. But she was just saying that you will just dive in, book everyone on the flight, get everyone there, get to that person, help them, support them. And even when it's someone who's not directly connected to you, but is indirectly connected, and I'm sure you know what I'm talking about. But the idea of just, you reach that far out. And when I was hearing that about you from her, I was thinking that that takes so much compassion and care from your side. And those are not two words that on some of the other platforms that people may hear about you. But that's what I'm getting talking to your mother about you. And I wonder how have you, I feel family is the cause for so much stress for people. It's the cause for so much anxiety for people. And as you said, it's hard. How have you continued to lean in to compassion and care even when it's easier to compare and criticize and complain? Well, with family, I mean, I was always raised, like no matter what, blood is thicker than water. There's no other options. So we definitely go through our things as sisters. There's no other options. Like we will work it out. Like we are family, we are sisters, we will figure it out. And I think you just have to, I think also, more compassion comes with age and the more things that you've been through. And especially, I think my heart has opened up so much in that space, just spending time, even with people behind bars that I'm fighting for. And I might not have even had the slightest idea of what someone's gone through or even understood taking the time to listen to people more than maybe speaking and making it about yourself. And my compassion has just grown. And my empathy has grown on another level. You can't really judge people for their pace on when they choose to really want to dig deep into their own compassion and empathy. And when people choose to grow and evolve, but it's so nice to have people that support that journey and grow with you. Because once you realize that this life really isn't about you and it's about helping as many people as you can, all these doors open up for you and your mind just opens up and it's a really great place to be when you feel like you have enough, when you would chase things for so long and when you just feel content, it's such a good place to be. And it's such a, like, allows for so much more compassion. I think, and I want everyone to go back and listen to that part. I feel like you just beautifully defined compassion and I'm going to try and reiterate what you just said. Yeah, it was just, it was so well said because I think people think about compassion as care and you just defined it by pace. And I think when you're patient for the pace at which people grow and evolve, that actually is compassion. There's nothing worse when someone is like so woke and they've, they're on this therapy journey and they expect you to be right there with them. But it's a beautiful thing to sit back and watch people make mistakes, learn from their mistakes, grow and evolve and just be there to hold their hand and support them. I think that's what anyone would want. I've seen so many people on these, like, self-help journeys that just aren't as happy, you know? And I think you just have to like sit back and do what works for you and move at your own pace and understand that it's okay that you're not at the same level as someone else. Yeah. I mean, I'm just such a, like, everything happens the way it's supposed to. I love just people in their own journeys and I never try to be so preachy or to think that someone has to be in my place and at the level where I've evolved to, it's great when your friends have the same kind of epiphanies as you and you want the same things. But then sometimes it's just not like that. Yeah, definitely. There's, you brought two things to my mind. One was what real love is, like, when you really love your family, you don't love them because they change. Yeah. Your patient with them as they try to change. That's what love is because they may or may never get to the other side. And the other thing that came to mind is something my teachers would often tell me, my monk teachers, they would often repeat to me that you're never trying to get someone to the next step in your journey. You're trying to get them to the next step in their journey. Yeah. And I think you're so right that when we're doing self-work, we are constantly preaching to other people about the things we want to hear and the things we want to do. Yeah. And self-work can just be so different for so many people. You know, like, my morning workouts, I swear, that's my self-work. My drive in the car every day, blasting whatever music I want to. Like, that is my meditation, that's my zone. And that works for me. You know, when I need help and I need help figuring out different parenting things and different methods that I can use, I will reach out and get the help that I need when I need it for sure. But I also think there's just, there's no like right method of what works for everyone. You know, it's like whatever works for you, good for you. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I feel like when people see you and even now you're talking, you have so much trust in yourself or trust in your inner voice. That doesn't mean you're, I don't believe you're saying, I always get it right. Or this is the only way what you're actually saying is, I've learned to trust my voice. And I wonder, was there a time when you didn't trust that voice? And, or can you remember the first time where you started to hear it? Like, I remember the first time I really started to hear my voice deeply, was probably when I was 14 years old. And that's when I could hear this voice inside of myself that was like, Jay, this is who you are, this is what you care about, this is what matters to you, you don't need to be this or be that or do it this way. And I remember I started listening to it then and now that in a voice is really loud. Yeah. It's always there. I wish I listened to my inner voice at 14. But do you remember when you first started like, because when I'm speaking, here's doing you now, you're just like, yeah, like I'm very comfortable with people being themselves. And I'm comfortable with who I am, which is beautiful. But when did that, I feel so many people want to live that way, but that's the thing we all struggle with. It definitely didn't come right away. You know, I was a people pleaser and I would make decisions based off of other people's happiness for so long. And I would say honestly, in the last few years, definitely at 40, you know, I figured it out of just following my happiness, which was really, I think, an important place for me to get to, because I always put other people's happiness over my own. And it doesn't mean you disregard other people's feelings, and it doesn't mean you don't care, and you don't love them. But it is a great place to be when you finally put yourself first. And I will say it, that took a long time. And that was like relying on other people for confidence in business decisions. And it's great to have your team into always like bounce ideas and make sure that you're collectively picking the right choice and work thing for you. But true confidence where you feel you're making the right decisions, you know you got it, you are thinking about yourself first and not just in a selfish way, but like in protecting your heartway, it feels really good. And I might not have gotten there until I was literally 40. And what do you think it was about the last few years where you had to turn towards that, that pushed you there? I've never been an unhappy person. I'm always really happy with my surroundings. I don't need people to make me happy. I'm not really ever searching for something. I'm really content. My babies make me happy, my family, my life, you know, experiences make me happy. But when you just look around and when there's like tension and stress that is just not necessary from work, from relationships, from friendships, and you just decide to be still and not try to please everyone, it becomes just really clear. And you realize that you just want to be happy and you want to share this life and that these experiences with your group of people that you trust and you love and who are super loyal. Like life is always going to be stressful and you can't control half of it. But if you can control what you put out and how you react to all of life's stresses and your response to all of that and realizing that you could eliminate a lot of those stresses with making yourself happy first and choosing yourself, then you know you're on the right path. And once I did that and once I chose to choose myself and be happy, so many opportunities just opened up. Things that I never thought in a million years would come my way. It seemed like clear as day that the universe was rewarding me for choosing myself and like elevating, like getting to the next level in the video game. Like I had to get here and I was always like here just in my growth process. And once I chose myself, it was like, oh my God, the whole, the universe is opening up for you and all these opportunities are coming my way. And those were the confirmations that I was heading in the right direction. I remember saying that to one of my sisters, I was like, oh my God, it is so crazy. I got this opportunity, this opportunity, this is changing, this is changing. And it seemed like all these amazing things started to happen in my life when I just took a second was still realized, wait a minute, I'm trying to make everyone happy. I'm doing all this stuff for everyone else but myself. Let me just like pull back a second, focus on myself, and then it seemed like everyone else was happier because everything was just falling into place. And that was like I saw it clear as day. And that would like push me and motivate me to continue to just be happy and do what I wanted to do instead of what other people wanted to do. And that was like, it was like a good feeling. It really like showed me that I was making the right decisions. So happy for you. Thank you. And genuinely. And a good place to be when you're genuinely a happy person, you know, like no complaints. Like not taking things too seriously, not taking yourself too seriously is also a little key to happiness. 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And with a 365 day refund guarantee, there's no excuse undercovertourist.com. Yeah, I think the energy that gets lost in worrying about something versus working towards fixing it or solving it can just drain the worrying. If you worry about something, it's not going to change the outcome. Let's just come up with a solution. Like let's say what the problem is not complain. I'm not a complainer. So it's like let's just get to the solution. Let's figure it out and let's move on. Absolutely. Nothing worse when you complain every step of the way. Yeah, and it's natural and it's easy but we all know it doesn't get you to where you want to go. And I think that's a big reason. What's the, I wonder with what you were saying, one of the big things that comes out as you were talking about family and people in your life and you talked about your life as chat. Like there's this loyalty is such a big value for you. Yeah. Across your life, it seems. Yeah. What have you learned about people that you wish you learned sooner? Was there something that you started to learn and recognize patterns in people and that has made you better now? But you wish like, I've learned this a couple of years sooner than it could have saved me a lot of the stress and challenges that came up. Don't take anything personally. I've been really blessed to have really great solid relationships. I have the same group of best friends we went to preschool together. We talk every single day. My best friend is my best friends since the day I grow up, you know, when I was born. The people I work with, my family, my sisters, but my best friend's sisters also, you know, and everyone I trust, 100%, everyone is so loyal, 100%, you can't come up to me and tell me something about one of my friends. If someone were to say, oh, this person said this about you and they're in my circle, I would be absolutely not. Like I would trust that 100%. And I think that's so rare or what I've seen is so rare. And I just feel so lucky to just love everyone around you. Trust everyone around you. They trust you. My friends know they can call me any hour. I'll be the first one to pick up and help. All of my friends would drop everything to help me in a situation and to have that real support and love, I think is everything in life, to have loyal supportive people around you. And I think you can also tell so much about a person that has really long standing relationships. That's stability. When I look to hire people, I look at their previous jobs and how long they've had those relationships for and think about it if there's someone that's bouncing from job to job. Obviously there could be other situations that come into place, but I value people that have these long standing relationships with people, whether it's their employer or family. And that's super important to me to have all my friends have really important relationships in their life. I think that says a lot about you and the family because I wonder what it takes to hold on to a relationship like that when you're on a rocket ship. I feel like all of us deal with shifts in our life transitions and family and friends that we want to hold on to, but it gets harder and harder, especially when there's success, when there's envy, when there's competition. And sometimes it's not because someone doesn't love you, it doesn't care about you. It's so natural in the world we live in. And so what does it really take? Because I think this will help a lot of people. What does it actually take to hold on to someone you love and continue with all the noise and all the challenges and all the stress that comes with it? What does it actually take? But then there's those friends that you don't have to talk to every day. I mean, thank God for group chats where you can chime in and heart something really quick, you know? But like your real best friends will also support you. And it takes that mutual respect. Because what my friends are doing, if they have something that's important to them, it's just as important for me to show up for them as it is for them to show up for me. I might have a more colorful life and a bigger event that I'm asking them to show up to, but it doesn't mean that there isn't just as important. So I think just having that mutual respect, treating people with respect is just a given. I truly think someone is such a solid person when they have really grounded relationships, grounded in love and relationships can be different things. Sometimes you have your group of girlfriends that you love to go on vacation with and then sometimes you have your other friends that you work really well with. Every relationship can be different. If you have just a mutual respect around the across the board, that's I think the number one thing. Yeah, it takes two. Yeah, it takes two. That's the point. It's you're not going to be able to create it or falsely hold onto it. Someone who doesn't totally want to give you that respect. Yeah. It's not going to happen. Yeah. You told me earlier about parenting and you brought out a few times and I wonder how you don't have kids. Do you? I'm not yet. Not yet. Okay. We'll have this conversation again. Yeah, absolutely. That's how I'm asking. This is how I'm asking parenting questions. What was your vision like for what you thought parenting was going to be like versus what it actually is? Everyone says the days are long and the years are short and that couldn't be like a more true statement. So like when you're in it, I mean, especially when there are babies and you're feeding and you're there's madness going on. It's like full madness. It's the best chaos though. Like my mornings, you have no idea what's going on. It's like I always have to do one of my daughter's hair and it has to be perfect and it has to be a certain way. And then this one needs me to put his shoes on and that they all need you and they all it's like full, crazy madness, cooking, running around. Like it's wild. That's why I need my workout in the morning just to like prepare for the two hours of craziness. I'd say parenting is the thing that has taught me the most about myself. It has been the most challenging thing. There are nights I cry myself to sleep like what just happened, you know, with all the moods and the personalities and sometimes they're fighting and there's no one there. Like it's me to play good cop and bad cop. So like that is definitely a challenge when, you know, something I'm working on is being a little bit firmer, you know, there is nothing that can prepare you. Anyone, any person that says, oh, we're waiting to have X amount of money in the bank. Oh, we're waiting to have a home before we have kids. Oh, I'm waiting for this job to come in before we have kids. I don't care how long you wait. I don't care what you're waiting for. You are never prepared, but you will figure it out and it will make you so proud of yourself that you figured it out and that you got through the day. And sometimes it's nights where it's just we are going hour by hour to see if we're going to survive night by night. If a tantrum comes in, oh my god, your life is completely upside down. But it teaches you so much more about yourself than I think anyone, any parent could have ever anticipated. I mean, there is nights when you don't wash your hair for days as a mom and you have sped up all over you and you're wearing the same pajamas, you know, and there's just nothing that can prepare you for this experience. It is the most challenging, rewarding job on this planet. When was the moment when you were looking into your baby's faces and said I want to run away? I'm I need to hide for a night. Every night. I'm just kidding. No, yeah, no, thank you. It's, I mean, it's honest that I think there's a little bit of truth in that feeling that a lot of parents have. What's the hardest when you've been looking when you look into their faces and you had one of these moments where you were learning these lessons? What was the hardest lesson you had to learn about yourself that made you go, whoa, I didn't, I didn't see that before. If it wasn't for that kid, I wouldn't have seen that. Yeah, it happens all the time. I always think everything in life comes our way to really teach us something. And it's a really hard task when you have four kids and you know, they all want to be put to bed at the same time by the same person. And they all want to do it individually and have that experience. And no one wants to wait. And I'm locked in a room with kids banging outside of the door because they want me to put them to bed. And I'm like, I can't cut myself in four pieces. So we're going to have to schedule this out. And we're coming up with a schedule and none of them want to listen to the schedule. And then they all start crying. And that's like a typical night, you know. And so I like, sit them outside of my one daughter's door. And I'm like, I'll pick you up next. We're doing this for 15 minutes. And they can't be patient. And they're banging on the door. Come on. It's been five minutes. You know, it's like those nights are every single night. Big school projects, big things that are happening. And they don't understand that I work or I have a school schedule too or, you know, stuff kids will never understand. So I think it's just those nights when you can't divide yourself and you have to just work with what we have and try to bribe two of them to get put to bed at the same time. You know, I think in less year, like so much respect to parents, so much respect to people also that aren't parents that want to live their free life. Enjoy it while you can. I was at Easter on Palm Springs and I looked at my mom's house and she had her table set for all of her kids, all of her grandkids. And we're all staying in her house. And I was like, it's a forever thing. It's not like, hey, okay, you're 18 and you're on your own. It's a forever thing. And we're in our 40s and we're still coming at her and fighting and asking my mom to resolve everything. And I look at her and I'm like, how did you do it? I personally can't wait for my kids to get a little bit older. Everyone like is so afraid of the teenage phase. I'm so excited for it. Play this back for me when they're teenagers. But I see the relationship I have with my mom and I knew the relationship I had with my dad and how comfortable we were talking to them about all of our problems and all of our friend stuff and all of the drama and all of the high school stuff. And even the stuff I talked to my mom about now and how open I am about life and relationships and how close we are. Even if we didn't get it as a kid, I can look at her now and say, I get it as a mom now, as an adult now, I know why you made those decisions. And I love having that relationship. And that is why I wanted to have four kids. I saw my mom, you know, and my dad had four together before she had my two little sisters and I loved the big family. And I always knew I wanted to have four kids. And I just love so much our relationship with her and my grandma. And I just can't wait to have that with my kids. I can't wait till they're old enough to understand so much that I can never explain to them now that they'll get one day and we can laugh about it. That's so beautiful. Yeah, you reminded me of a beautiful old saying that says, the day you realize your parents were right, your kids are telling you that you're wrong. So true. Yeah. And it's like that idea of just you, when you're a little boy, you like adore your mom, at least I did them until like 13 years old. Then you become a teenager and you think you too cool for your mom. Yeah. And then in my 20s, yeah. I have like contracts with my sons. I'm like, you're never going to leave me. We always have to be besties. You're never going to be too cool for me. And they always say yes. Yeah. I'm like, you can live with me in your 20s, your 30s. Never move out. They said, okay. They've signed the contract. Yeah. And they've no idea. They'll breach it. Yeah. It'll be okay. Yeah. You won't see them. Yeah. But I wonder how in your position, like, you know, what you just described is what so many people go through. And like you said, it's so hard for them to experience that. But when you're explaining things like the paparazzi, you're like, you were saying that when you're in Japan, like you didn't have that experience. And that was so nice for the kids. Like, how do you walk them through the nuances of the life that you lead? And I'm guessing a lot of their friends also have similar lives. But I'm sure they've some friends who who don't have parents like yourselves. And so how do you help them reconcile or what are the kind of things that you talk about with them or what can they understand at this age? And what are you like? Well, that's just going to have to wait. I'll talk to my kids about anything they want to ask me about. I am so open and honest with my kids. I think that's the only way to be. And it could be things that they might not understand. And I'll wait to find the appropriate time to talk about it. I think they grew up seeing the cameras and they grew up seeing that even as babies. You know, we'd walk out and there'd be paparazzi. So it's not really something that they acknowledge a lot. But, you know, my daughter's really vocal. She'll tell them when she doesn't want them around and to leave her alone and to stop. And I love that they use their little voices. But they also have such a normal life and such a different life away from all of that too. And that's why I love that my sisters and I all had babies at the same time so they can be with each other and have these experiences together. Absolutely. When I'm, you know, there's all the words that come out from you are like togetherness, loyalty. It's incredible to see it in family. But I think what you've then done, which when I saw you do this, it really moved me when I saw you kind of move into that direction of justice for form and using your voice and training to be a lawyer to make these changes in the world out there because I find that, you know, there's there's a natural sense of survival as a family. But then when you start taking into account the survival of others, there's an extension of love and, you know, what goes out to the world. And I think it was really special to see that this podcast is called on purpose for a reason because I think everyone's searching for their purpose. Would you say that that was a expression of purpose or absolutely. I mean, I think that's one of those moments like by chance I happened to be looking on social media and seeing a case that I just didn't understand. And I'm always a really curious person. So I'll never let something go if it's weighing on my heart to not at least try to figure out how it happened. I've always been really interested in crime stuff and solving things and figuring things out. So when I saw a case of a woman that just didn't make sense to me, I was really curious. And I sent this little video that popped up on my Twitter to attorneys that I knew really well that could answer questions for me. And then when it seemed like I couldn't just sit there, it was really weighing on my heart when I felt like it was so unfair. I didn't know that there was like thousands of cases that were so unfair. I just thought, oh, wow, like I have to help this person. And then when I was successful in doing that on my journey, I realized like, wait, there's so many more people like this. Like I can't not do something. And I think that that also goes with whatever is meant to come to you at your own pace for your own learning levels is what's meant to be because that came to me. I wasn't like searching for that and that changed my life and it changed who I am. I just can't sit around and see this happen to other people that aren't deserving of their freedom. I think just everyone's on their own path and things will come to you when you need to be like elevated to that growth level. And I'm really grateful for those experiences because I definitely think that that's my purpose. What internal changes did you see in yourself that maybe you didn't see before when you started doing this work? Like what did you have to grapple with internally? Was there anything that you had to break through inside? Yeah, what was those things? I would say I always felt like I was a compassionate person and a caring person. And I always cared about people's feelings. But my level of empathy was at a completely different level when I started. I might have been way more judgmental and I would think that someone that was behind bars especially for a really lengthy or a serious crime that they probably were absolutely guilty. I had no compassion. I was just really judgmental. And then when I started to hear about these cases and people's backstories and their histories and realized that so many people really didn't have the opportunities to be better and didn't know better, it really changed my whole life. And like my level of empathy is just so different than what it was years ago. And I think that's why I fight so hard for people to get second chances because people make really bad choices and really bad mistakes. Some way, way worse than other people. But if you're never given the chance to change, that's really sad, especially if you make a really bad decision as a teenager and then you're in your 40s and you're given no shot to change when you really already maybe have so much, it was really important to me to express that and help people that have made those changes. And I love how I'm assuming that when you do something like that and the outside space that kind of applies to your whole life where all of a sudden you're so right that I think we all, not even people behind bars, I think we all judge people all the time. And when you're almost doing it in such an extreme way and raising your empathy in such an extreme environment, you can now extend that and express that to so many more people because you've had to do it in a way where you will like, oh definitely that person deserves it. And all of a sudden you start realizing maybe they didn't deserve that. So maybe we don't deserve this. I think you know, but in all levels of life of judgment, I used to judge people in like their relationships and how people live to their lives. And now I'm like, whatever makes you happy, why should we judge? Who are we to say how people should live their lives? My judgment is just, I don't know if it comes with age or experience or just going through so many things, but just be happy. You know, isn't that what life is about? Experiences, making people feel heard and seen and appreciated and just having gratitude for the things in life that we're so blessed to have and work for and for surrounded by the people we love. We are, that's real success. Yeah. You know, I agree. And I feel that a lot of people start getting better at that with the judgment outside. But one of the things that people struggle to deal with the most is the judgment in their head. And I wonder, do you find that you ever catch yourself judging yourself from being hard on yourself and being heavy and harsh on yourself? You've been able to give that up. I'll be like competitive with myself. I think I'm a really competitive person, but I'm pretty, I'm pretty easy on myself. Wow, that's incredible. I was always like really calm, really easygoing. That's a really achievement. Yeah. And I'm sure you see people judging themselves all the time. Yeah. I was grabbing some coffees for my team a couple of months back or something. And I remember like I was paying the cashier and she gave me the change and I was grabbing the change and walking off and she was like, wait, wait, wait, I'm so stupid, I'm so stupid, I got the change wrong. And I was like, I didn't even notice and I looked and I was like, oh, okay, like I was like, you're not stupid, like easy mistaken. You can see the look on her face. Like she was judging herself so harshly for something so small. And I guess when you see people judge themselves, then how do you, how do you respond to that or how do you support them? Looking forward to spring break, graduation and girls' nights out, get outfitted today at Lulu's. Lulu's is all about providing on-trend looks for any occasion. Whether it's a current trend or a closet staple, you can find it at Lulu's. 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And I love hearing that because I think it is so true that you can curate and create a community around you that has similar values. And then almost you don't see a lot of determination and creativity, a lot of hard work. If I were to go on vacation with my girlfriends, we'd all be getting up probably at 6am. I want to go on a workout. I don't think there's that one girl that would be like, I'm sleeping till 10 and I'm not working out. So I think that obviously everyone around you is different and has different personalities. But I think a lot of my core friends are really like-minded. And sometimes that positive peer pressure can be really healthy too. Even if you have that one friend who's struggling as soon as you're added to that group, you see the melloway. I've seen that with so many of my friends that even if there's one person who's struggling with something as soon as they're in that pack, all of a sudden you start to see them break through their ceiling. And it changes for them. Yeah. I think something that I've learned maybe the hard way because I feel like I'm at a really good place now where the people in my life I feel really solid. I think this is the first time in my life. Obviously I've had really long relationships with my girlfriends and friends since elementary school. But something I learned is that you cannot help people that don't want the help and don't- you can't force your beliefs and project that on someone that thinks something totally different. And it's okay to have those different views. That's why the world goes round. You know? But if you don't align in the same values and morals and things that your core, then it's okay to realize that this life is so short and you should go and find the people that do align with what you really believe in. And I think sometimes there's so much going on that you can be blinded by so many other things that if you don't stop and think about what someone's true values and morals are and how they want to live their life, so much other things are going on. So I don't blame people that don't really stop and think about those things. I mean, those are some of the lessons that I would teach my kids when they're looking for friends and partners and relationships. Yeah, you can't really force things upon other people. You can't expect them to be where you're at at your level. And sometimes that could really coexist really well. But then sometimes it really can't. You have to let go of the idea of molding people into what you want. Think about if there's something about yourself that you really want to change. The expectations of going into something and thinking you're going to get a different result or thinking you have the power to change someone is so selfish and so crazy and everyone does it. And everyone has to learn on their own. And that's something that I've always like sat back, helped friends, given them advice, but never really pushed because even if I were to say, hey, don't walk down that path. Trust me. I've been there. You don't want to go there. And they say, okay, and they follow you and they go on a different path. They'll never learn that lesson. They have no clue what I'm talking about. You know, I could say parenting stuff to you all day long with all due respect. You have no clue until you've been through it. I welcome people's journeys and their lessons. And I'll always be there to the people that I love to help them through that. But they got to go through that in order to grow on their own. What's the biggest lesson you learned from your mom that you try to pass on to the kids? I think just how she makes people feel. Really heard and welcomed. She really is the most warm, welcoming person. And it's just like her overall, it seems superficial, but it's not like her party planning skills. It's not even that. It's just the welcomingness of, I don't even know if these are words I'm saying. Just her ability to be so warm and to make everyone feel like they were invited here. I'm going to create this special Easter dinner with the things on the table that she had when we were growing up at my dad's house. She just has all this really special nostalgic stuff around all the time and always tries to make everyone feel so special, but with a gathering so that everyone feels comfortable and can hang around. She just loves people in her space and loves to create these memories. And I think that we all got that from her and we will all, if I can just pass that on to my kids, just the experiences that we have as a family, whether we're just sitting in our pajamas and hanging out, we make the time to be together. And I hope that my kids want to make the time to be together when they grow up with their cousins and their aunts and just the whole family. I'm sure they will. Yeah, I think you've managed to hold onto it in your entire generation. And so they see that. I think kids mirror so much of what they see around them. And I remember when I met my wife, her grandma is her favorite human on the planet. And it's really interesting how when someone you love, you know who their favorite human is, you automatically start loving them. Yeah. And I wasn't really close to my grandparents, but I'm closer to Rade's grandma and my own grandparents because you see your love for the person that you love. And so I think when your kids see the love that you have for your sisters and your cousins and your aunts and uncles and parents. Now if only all my kids can love their siblings, that would be amazing. They're in a fighting phase. Yeah. Yeah. And you guys went through that phase. We went through. Yeah. Oh my God. The fist, but yeah. Still going on. Never ending. That's never going to stop. Kim, I feel like you travel so much. You have so many businesses. You're now going to be on a TV show. Like another TV show. I mean, you've got so much things happening in your life. And I'm sure there's moments where whether the kids say something or don't, I know a lot of people in my life feel a lot of mom guilt. Yeah. And mom's carry it with them. Have you experienced that with your friends, your family? Absolutely. Mom guilt is probably the hardest thing. I think that you have to also separate though and understand that you need your own bit of sanity. So you have to do what makes you happy. You have to if working for me, I love working. So that makes me happy. Anytime I think something's really hard, I dive into work. And or if there's challenges, like I love to dive into my work. And that's like a bit of my therapy and my routine to keep me going. But I think, you know, I have chats with my girlfriends when our kids are having tantrums and there could be things going on that we don't even know about. And you feel like you're the worst mom. If something's going on and you can't fix it, you have no idea how to change it. Your kids are fighting. Whatever it is. And my friends and I will text each other and be like in tears, literally locking ourselves in the room like away from a kid having a tantrum when that's not what you should do. You should go and lean into them. And but sometimes it's so overwhelming that was probably the only time I'd be hard on myself. Is am I a good mom? I try to do everything. And I think how to balance work with that is when you're home being really present. Kids all they want is time. They just want your time. Yeah. You can give them all these amazing big experiences. And they'll remember them and they're great. But they'll always remember you being present. And I think that's just the most important thing in all of your relationships. Think about what a kid wants. A kid just wants your time. So why wouldn't everyone else? You have to kind of treat everyone like that if you want these like meaningful relationships in your life. And you have to be present. And it's okay to feel like you are not 100% at being the best mom. I say this all the time. There's no manual. They do not come with the manual. Everyone's doing the best that they can. And I just feel so lucky that I have a good group of girlfriends. And all of our kids are experiencing different things from I mean, imagine on the things that they a divorce, everything that they have to go through were okay. They will be okay. And they will feel the love and support. And that's all you can do. It'll be okay. And I'm sure that's hard for you because you were saying that you're so competitive with yourself. If you want to be the best to everything. But I feel like being the best mom must be the hardest thing to ever live up to. Absolutely. And I'm very confident. So every year I write each one of my kids about a four or five page letter about on their birthday about what the year was like. Who their friends are, silly words are saying their favorite foods, all the silly things that they do. And a little journey of what the year is like. And it's so fun to see from the first year. Now, you know, one of them almost 10 years old. And just to I know that they'll appreciate this. I know that they'll appreciate everything that they might have thought I was being a little harsh on me protecting them. I know that they'll get it because I got it with my mom. And I know they'll get it with me. You've reminded me of something beautiful that I want to share that. So my mom and dad were both immigrants in London, which is where I was born and raised. And both my parents worked ever since I was a kid. And so I'd get dropped to daycare, get picked up in the evening. But what I remember is something you said, my mom would come and pick me up. And I still remember that look on her face when she'd pick me up. She'd have this big smile. She'd give me the biggest hug. She'd take me home. And we'd sit down together while she was cooking and we'd just talk to each other. And it's almost like I never had a lot of time with my parents growing up. But I thought so much presence. And I honestly believed today that I have so much love to give because my mom infused me with love. My mom just like, you know, bathed me in so much love. Totally. That it's so easy for me to be loving because I've always had infinite amounts of it for my mom. That's the best. I couldn't imagine. I love on my kids so hard. They are so annoyed with me. And I love it. What I find genuinely inspiring about you and the way you think and focus is that you want to be this incredible mom. But you also want to show the kids what a passionate purpose driven person looks like. And I think we forget that that's also parenting. Like, I'm not a parent, but I can honestly say it that when I saw my mom working late at night and waking up early in the morning, I look back at my mom and I think my mom is a super woman. Yeah. And I look back at that as inspiration. I hope my kids think that only one day. They will. They will because they'll see that. And I think same with my dad, like I saw my dad and how much he had to work. And there was something powerful about that. I think I always like to show them like I dropped my kids off at school. And then I have two or three hours of of law school. So I got to go. I'm on time because I have my school. And they have been on the journey with me. They saw me take the bar exam. They saw me open my results and not pass multiple times. They saw me open up the results and pass. And I was crying. And they felt my hard work and it paid off. I want to show them that finding a passion and working to me is something I love to do. And there's so much joy in that for me. And I want them to feel that positive experience. And I encourage that from them. Like I want to just show them as many positive experiences as I can and show them that you know, you can work hard and you can love it. And I just try to live my life and be a good example for them. I think it comes through. And I do believe that like when I look back at my parents, all I can do is appreciate my mom. Like all I can do. I hope they do. Sometimes they tell me I'm the meanest mom in the world because I won't buy them roadblocks every day. You know, it's like I'm like it's okay. I could be the meanest mom in the world. Yeah. You know, I think that's what mom's doing. Mom's are willing to be anything that kids need them to be even if it's that for a short period of time. Kim, you've been so gracious and kind with your time today. We end every on purpose episode with a final five. The first question is what is the best advice you've ever received or heard? Something that I've learned about time is just that we never have enough of time. So really be present and make the most of your relationships because we're not here very long and we have one life. Was there a moment that made you realize that or something that happened that made you realize that? I mean, I think when you lose a parent, you're always really mindful of time and my mom talks about it all the time. I think she's like probably the one thing in life she's scared about, you know, and keeps her up at night sometimes. So just making sure that you make the most of everything because it'll go by so fast. Second question, what is the worst life advice you've ever received or heard? I think maybe the worst advice could be almost too much advice or too many opinions. If you really trust your gut and you do what you want to do and if you're in your bubble and when the world gets to that little piece of your bubble and there can be so many opinions, I think sometimes all of the conflicting advice can just be bad advice. That even if you're supposed to make your mistake and maybe do what you want to do with any bad piece of advice, that's still a part of your journey. So sometimes just do what you want to do and not take in all of the advice is really healthy. I think that's great. And don't ask for in the first place. Yeah. Yeah. I know. We all have that one friend who messages like 25 people with the same question. Totally. Yeah. Definitely. Good answer. All right. Question number three, if tomorrow not wishing there's no intentions, no energy towards this, but if tomorrow you have to restart, what would you do if tomorrow everything went away and you had to restart, what would you do business wise? Like how would that shift? I think I would probably be a lawyer and just focus on that and go to law school and focus on being an attorney full time because I just think the feeling of being able to help people is really powerful and necessary. And I would just focus on that. That's such a hot feeling. I'm glad I asked you guys. Yeah. I just feel like it's really interesting. I was having a conversation last night with the mutual friends of us, a school abroad and we were together last night and we were talking about this idea about how we often think that our experiences make us who we are or is it that you are just going to be who you are anyway because that's who you were meant to be? I think it's both. Yeah. Think about it. You can be the most talented person, but if you don't have that determination and drive, then what will become of it? You know, it's not just going to magically happen because you're talented. Of course. So I think so much of it is the effort and what you do with that and figuring that out and who you are and what you want to put out in the world. I guess my point is that I think you have that energy of wanting to be the best, wanting to do things really well, of wanting to do things with that quality and whatever you ended up doing with it, it would have been that. And it is that already. You're doing that anyway. You have to, no matter, even if this isn't the job that you want, no matter what it is that you're doing, you have to be fully your best. You have to put in 200%. You have no idea who's paying attention. You're at that place exactly where you're supposed to be at that time. There's nothing worse than someone that doesn't want to give it their all no matter what it is. And it could be that's like, you know, business advice that I heard that always stuck with me and always was even when I was working at a clothing store. I was so happy to be there. I did my absolute best that I could selling everything and steaming everything and hanging everything. And I think those experiences just show you what you want to do in your life, show other people really what you're made of. I'm just like a, I'm a really competitive person. So no matter what it is that I'm doing, I want to be the best at that. I want to learn everything about it. And I'm just a super curious person. Beautiful question number four things we've been talking about values. What's something that you used to value that you no longer feel you value anymore? Definitely material designer things. I used to value, I mean, stuff. I live in an area where there would be fires a lot. And there was probably four times we had to fully pack up the house. Everything out. House is catching on fire. Property caught on fire like really close to losing everything. First time packed up my entire shoe and bag closet. And a lot of them because they were memory stuff from my dad, stuff in high school, but all designer stuff. Also videos, photos, whatever, digitized everything, put everything important somewhere else. Second pack up the designer stuff, but leave some leave some of the clothes. You know, I don't really need all the clothes, but I packed a hotel for months bags and but every designer thing that I had had to come. Third time leave all the bags and shoes. I don't need them. We got all the we got all the photos. We got all the my little blanky when I was little, you know, the kids stuff. Fourth time leave everything. Me and my babies. That's all I need. You know, I have all my photos digitized. I have everything digital. We got our passports were good. And not like evolution of like they had to go in and get all my designer stuff. Or I'm not leaving my house. You know, it's going to catch on fire. And now I'm like, nothing is worth it. Nothing is important. And I think that comes from life experiences, scary experiences, things shaking you to your core to make you realize that nothing is important. You can't I know everyone says this, but like you can't take it with you. None of it is important. Yeah, there's a beautiful Islamic proverb that says, detachment doesn't mean that you own nothing. It means that nothing owns you. And I feel so often we become owned by our dreams, our desires, our pursuits, our things. Yeah. It doesn't mean that we have to give them all away or we don't have those things. It's just if and when we have to let go, totally, are we able to let go? Totally. Even with work stuff, I mean, it doesn't just have to be the material things. Like you said, like your dreams and it's okay to be able to let go, but work so hard to like the opposites are okay, contradicting yourself a little bit in those ways. You know, it's like in relationships, you can love a person, miss a person so much, but still have the wisdom to know they're not your person and you're better off, not together, that like opposite connection with everything, I think is really important to have that awareness in everything in life, relationships, material things, all of that. Yeah, I officiated a wedding a few years ago and someone came up to me from the audience and and said to me, Jay, I realized from what you were saying that they just gone through a breakup recently and they were saying, Jay, I realized that I love that person, but we didn't like each other anymore. And it was that essence of like, they'll always be that deep love for each other. Yeah, but we just don't like family, you know, like you love people and but it's okay to to feel a protection of a person, but then also protecting yourself and realizing when you have to and when it's time and it's okay to feel all of the opposite emotions, you know, I think as long as you're really well aware and go through the motions and feel things and don't hold things in, it's so important whether it's, you know, breakups, deaths, I've always been really clear headed and like gone through the feelings, gone through the emotions, more in those relationships, more in those lifelong relationships that you hope for and then also be okay and calm and realizing, I've always been someone like, okay, my dad died. What, why is this happening? What was his purpose here and how are we going to grow and learn from this experience? And I always said that like right when he passed and I was felt it and super emotional about it and, you know, cry all the time when great things happened that I wish he was here, but also I had a wisdom at like a younger age to understand that this is like a part of our journey and a part of our like evolution and this happens and this is why you have to hold on to relationships even more precious but don't let things destroy you at the same time. If that makes sense. Yeah, it does make sense. I can tell just for your energy like I just want everyone to know is listening and watching often people can say something but the time I've spent with you even today I can tell from the energy that you are content and you are peace and you are I can feel that just yeah peace. That's what I'm with you. I sense peace and I think doing an interview with someone just it's a different environment that you I remember when I interviewed Kobe Bryant and I almost felt like time stood still and his word that I saw with his energy was gravity. I could just felt like everything was just and then when I'm sitting with you I'm feeling peace and a lot of the time people try to find people when they're not at peace hoping that someone else will put their pieces back together. You are at peace. Do you ever feel like you want to be in love again? Do you long for that or are you so at peace that that isn't a consideration? I think I'll always be a hopeless romantic and always want to be in love and definitely love sharing my life with someone and love creating a life with someone. I definitely will take my time and I think there's so many factors especially when you have kids and being mindful of people that enter in your life and if I can look at everything that I did wrong and try to not make the same mistakes and really take my time I think it just has to be different for me. You know it's obviously such a hard place to be in because how do you go about? Who do you you know it's like so there's so many factors but I'll always believe in love and I'll always want that and I think that's such a magical part of life but I think I'm so comfortable taking my time to not rush it. There's so much going on that I'm not lonely and I think that that is really important and I believe like I always believe you know and I think that whatever is meant to be will be. If the final question of the whole interview if you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow what would it be? That's a good one. Just second chances and fairness. I think it could be something as simple as just whether it's in our system or judgment in life. Just making sure that everyone had like a basic human right to what's fair. I think we change a lot in the system. We change a lot in life and a law for everyone to be kind. It's that simple. You think about like all I want to do is raise kind thoughtful grateful mindful human beings. Kim thank you for being so open so honest so generous with your time. Everyone has been listening and watching. I hope you tag us birth on Instagram on TikTok wherever you share your insights that you gained. I'd love to see what you took away from this podcast. I'd love to share that with both of us. Thank you for listening to On Purpose. I'll see you again next week and Kim thank you so much again for this energy of yours today and being so present with us. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. 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