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I pulled the money out and I was like, yeah, let me get those pills. And he's like, oh, I got some of that fentanyl powder if you want to try it. Literally just a split second, but in my brain, in mind you, I'm getting ready to go to treatment like in two days. I'm probably drunk and have pills in my system, but it just like my life flashed before my eyes. I'm like, if you try this, that you've been wanting to try more than likely, you're going to drop dead. Knock and doors down is all about turning your greatest adversities into your greatest advantage. Your host, Jason Lechance here, I've struggled with addiction issues as well as mental health issues that include depression and anxiety. And through the process of my recovery and personal growth, I developed a passion for speaking with people who've taken those dark times and found purpose on the other side. And I'm knock and doors down with Joey Guerriero. Joey, like many, fell into opioid addiction through a sports injury when he got prescribed opioids for the pain. At that point, though, Joey in reflection realizes he was an alcoholic long before he became an opioid addict. Joey opens up about how it went from opioid dependency to full blown addiction and several rock bottom moments, but the final moment when he reflected upon what he was doing and realized he was on a path to an early death, Joey has built a purposeful life. Not only has he focused in on his mental and physical fitness, he also started a non-alcoholic CBD CBG non THC wine called Crybaby. Joey is even offering 20% off to knock and doors down listeners. If you hit the link in the podcast description, use code KDD. Again, you get 20% off. And I got to tell you, Crybaby wine, I thoroughly enjoyed it. Primarily, my, you know, my, my DOC drug a choice was, was, was alcohol. Not that I didn't try other things, tried a lot of other things, but, you know, I, at the end, my, I think it was talking my girlfriend about it. But, you know, for me, it was just not to get sick anymore, you know, like I was for whatever reason I could wake up and get through the day, but come around that five o'clock time and the anxiety and the shakes, it was there, man. And, you know, I just don't want to be sick at any point. Absolutely. That was my whole thing. Opia's was, it was all like flint in the hair. That guy said, all the time, but literally that was it after like the first six months, nine months or whatever, which turned into 10 years, was like just to not be sick. When did you start? Opio is, is it something that you tried? Was there an injury? Yeah, basketball, playing a billion adult league basketball, it broke my ankle. And I had never really liked Vicodin or any of that. And then, I mean, I fucked my ankle up bad and like that first day of just laying in bed with Vicodin. I was like, this isn't strong enough. I don't know why that in the gaming Norcos, which is just dumb. It was strong and like, it was like first two days and I was like, this is heaven. I just thought it felt great. All of a sudden. This was a solution, huh? Yeah. I mean, I wasn't even thinking about like, this was like in 2009 or 10. I mean, I wasn't even thinking of like, oh, I'm going to get addicted and go to the show. And then nine months later, after surgery and physical therapy and all that, then they're the doctors like, I'm just trying to get another refill. Oh, you don't need that anymore. Like, the fuck I don't, because if I don't take them, I don't feel good. Yeah. And they were easy to get. I knew people that sold them for cheap back then too. It was like less than three bucks a pill. And by 2019, I was paying anywhere from eight to $12 a pill just for a Norco. And I was taking up to 30 a day. Yeah. As an ass, what was your dose? That's bananas, man. Yeah. And then I had a guy that I would buy it get pills from and he would, uh, he was selling me fentanyl patches for a while that his mom was getting. She was dying of cancer and she either didn't want him. We took him from her one of the other. He's like, yeah, he's like, cut a little piece off and chew on it like gum. Those were great. Didn't last very long. Then he was selling me opana pills that had a coating on him. And he's like, yeah, he's like, just wipe the get wet cloth and wipe it off and put it in the pilgrinder and, and I was like, hell, yeah. And I was like, wow, this is great. Just one little, you know, two to that. And it's like last a long time. This is economical for me. Yeah. That's what I was hearing. And it's interesting to bring that up is about fentanyl. The people that I've known that have used it like, yeah, they did, you know, the reason I was going back so much because it didn't last that long, you know, it was kind of like a quick hit. Oh, you know, I think we're seeing that more. I mean, it's scary what they're mixing fentanyl with now. You know, the train can crop out there with, you know, mix with animal tranquilizers. And I was just like, I'd be dead for sure. Like, because that it was really hitting the Fresno area, like, right, when I got sober somewhere in 2019. It's when like the little blue they call them roxies. Yeah. Those are floating around Fresno lace with fentanyl. And this main guy that I always got pills from, he always had those blue pills. And I don't know, like I always considered him my moral drug dealer. Because he seemed to be like on the up and up, like always buying the prescriptions from like older people. And he's like, now these are definitely from a pharmacy. Like there's like I went and got him and I'm like, okay, I trust you. I guess I don't want to need a shit that you got third hand. You know what I mean? While you're checking knocking doors down out, don't forget to hit the subscribe button. And if you get a lot out of this podcast, share with a friend. And don't forget the archive of interviews we have. Bammar Jarra, Brandon Novak, Kat Von D, Charlie Sheen, Edward Furlong, Kelly Osborne. The list goes on and on of amazing guests that have been on the podcast, sharing how they have found purposeful lives. Speaking of purpose, how about a lifestyle brand with purpose? 5150 LTM. That's right. Not only is it a lifestyle brand, they can fit whatever it is you're trying to achieve in life. But they give back to the community. And you the listener of knocking doors down get 20% off every time you shop at 5150 LTM. All you have to do is use the code KDD20 at checkout and get 20% off. And how does 5150 give back to the community? Portions of the sales benefit the Carlos Vieira Foundation. There are three amazing programs. The race to in the stigma, the race for autism and the race to be drug free. More on the Carlos Vieira Foundation, go to Carlos Vieira Foundation dot org. The week of going to treatment, I was like, I need something to just make sure that I don't get sick. So instead of my typical 20 or 30 pills a day, I can just ration it out, live off of eight or nine a day. And then I'm going to need probably a few Xanax to take care of the alcohol withdrawals just for that day. And a few weeks prior to that, this guy was like, yeah, he's like, dude, he's like, I don't if you want to try this fentanyl powder or whatever, he's like, you know, it's hell is strong and dangerous, but just a little bit goes a long way. And I kept telling him, oh yeah, whenever you get that powder, let me know. And so then I had decided to go to treatment. And then that's when I wanted to get just a few pills. When I go get them that night, I walk into university hotel right across from the present state. And it's just a dirty, filthy old cheap hotel, no tell. And I walk in and he's got like this really gross looking woman with him. He's not his, the mother of his like five kids that he has. And she's like really gross looking and she's snorting something. And I'm like, this is, this is a fucked up situation. And as I pull the money out and I said, yeah, let me get those pills. And he's like, oh, I got some of that fentanyl powder if you want to try it. Literally, just a split second, but in my brain, in mind you, I'm getting ready to go to treatment like in two days. I'm probably drunk and have pills in my system. But it just like my life flashed before my eyes. I'm like, if you try this that you've been wanting to try more than likely, you're going to drop dead with these disgusting people. And you're going to be dead and your family's going to be told like what happened. And I mean, I just like was like, no, I'm good. Thank you. And I left. And like, I mean, I literally saw my life flash before my eyes because the main reason I went to treatment was obviously to get help because I didn't know how to do what I wanted to do. But for like six months, I was like borderline suicidal. I was going to kill myself. I thought about a bunch of different ways and like there was just no way I could do that to my parents. But like that's how deep and how much pain I was in and didn't know what to do about it. I mean, I was going to like break a mirror and like stab myself in the neck and make it look like an accident. I mean, who thinks of things like that? No, yeah. And we have a house up in the foothills. My dad does. I was like, oh, there's an area up there on that four acres. I could just go park my car behind a rock and get my shotgun and just ended there. Like countless different ways. So I was like, yeah, there's no way I'm trying that powder. I'm out of here. Yeah. That's one of those. Yeah. I think that's probably like your first God shot that you really got in the process, man. Yeah. I think it was for sure. That's bananas, man. Yeah, I mean, I found for me, I'm pretty lucky that I never overly got confronted with. Okay, I tried, you know, this once or twice or whatever it was. And then for me, like I got when I got my bisectomy, they gave me viking and for pain. And of course, I'm like, oh, okay, I'll have it with a beer. And I luckily got sick. Yeah, that's right. For me, lucky. And a lot of people like, oh, I got sick, but I did it again. For me, that was enough because my rash now was like, well, it takes me like 30 of these cans of this stuff to even feel like that. So I'll just stick with this. I got really lucky because I have family members that opioids is what took them down. But they were to the point you won. It was took it took his own life because there didn't see a way out. And the other was drinking with it and smoking a cigarette passed out and let his place on fire. So it's like, it's crazy and thank you for being that vulnerable to share that because I don't think people understand that don't suffer from the disease of addiction, the insanity of it. Because it is. I mean, it is like so insane. I mean, like I said, it started about 2009 or 10. I can't remember the exact year. But three years into it was where I was like, I was fed up with it. But too prideful and too ashamed to like, yeah, I always drink. And I probably always, I've probably been in alcoholic a lot longer than I really thought I was. But it really compounded with the pills. And then everybody would be like, how could you take pills and drink at the same time? I'm like, how can you not? The more pills I take, the more I can drink. But it just keeps going. And I'm supposed to be a downer. I said, well, not for me. And so in about 2013, I was in a relationship and it was with a girl that lived in Sacramento. So like, it was like every other weekend she would come here. I would go there. And then like after New Year's, like all of a sudden, she was like, just ghosted me. And we'd been dating for, I don't know, eight or nine months. Come to find out years later, the reason she ghosted me, she thought I was drinking too much. I'm like, well, if you liked me or loved me, like you could have expressed that and like, tried to help me. As opposed to just saying I drink too much. So I don't want to see this guy anymore, but I'm like, whatever. But like when that happened, I was like, you know, upset because I was like, yeah, this chick's cool. It's been a really good relationship and all of a sudden she just ghosted me. So of course the pills got worse. She didn't know I was taking pills. She just thought I drank, but it all just got worse for like another couple months. And then I heard about this miracle drug called Suboxone. No. And believe me, I didn't know anything about it. I just knew another fellow addict that had been getting it and said, like, change their life. And I'm like, okay, great. So the miracle's here. Thank God. And so I went to this doctor and Yadda Yada. And he started prescribing that to me. And I'm like, wow, this is great. I wake up in the morning, put a little strip of my mouth, put another strip of my mouth in the evening. And like, I don't need to take pills. I'm not sick. Well, obviously it turns out that's, I mean, the exact same thing is taking Norco, oxy, fentanyl, whatever. Like it's just the same thing. And then they tell you not to take pills if that's in your system because you'll get sick. Well, after a couple months, I'm like, I could take some pills here and there. Maybe I'll take a couple days off a week and I can manage my pills. I don't have to worry about like getting sick anymore. On a Friday morning, I would take the suboxone and I don't know, middle of the day on Friday, I'd start popping pills for the rest of the day and drink in and never had an ill effect from it. And so anyways, I would just go back and forth. Like, I'd go like, I don't know, maybe three weeks really on suboxone and then I'd be like, okay, I saved a little bit of money. I'll just get pills and just get fucked up, you know, for a while for another couple weeks or something. I was going back and forth for... Oh, probably two years or so and you go to this doctor and just be like, he'd ask you these questions about withdrawals, symptoms, answer them honestly and he's like, do you feel like you need to change your dose? I'm a drug addict. What do you think I'm going to say? No, let's keep it the same. Yeah, it's like, hey, Joe, you want another drink? Yeah, you're fucking a right. Yeah, exactly. The knock-and-doors down book shares all the history and inspiration behind the Carlos Vera Foundation and how it all started. All proceeds from the book benefit the Carlos Vera Foundation's Race to Be Drug Free campaign. So what's that all about? Through the Race to Be Drug Free campaign, Carlos Vera Foundation raises awareness about drug abuse, donates to drug free programs and brings drug free speakers into schools to educate youth. The Race to Be Drug Free campaign's main program is the Gloves Not Drugs Boxing Program. This program is completely free for kids between the ages of 8 and 17 to learn discipline, strength, respect, camaraderie and the art of boxing. The program was created to keep kids off the streets out of gangs and away from drugs. For more info and to get involved, check out CarlosVeraFoundation.org. And so then I don't remember something happened. It was like, I just stopped going to him because I don't know. I'd rather spend the money on pills. And like, pills like crazy again. And then, January of 2016, before the Super Bowl, I was back home living with my mom because my stepdad had passed away. And I got like this bloody nose that wouldn't stop. And it wasn't like a normal bloody nose. I could tell it was like, just not good. And so I had her take me to the hospital. And they said I popped a blood vessel up in my nasal cavity or something. My blood pressure was like 190 something over like 120 or 130, like something outrageous. And so I did not allow my mom to come back to talk to the doctors. You know, I'm in my mid 30s, it's time. And she kind of got mad. I'm like, I don't like the doctors. And I need to tell them some things and you just don't need to hear them. And so I told the doctor, I'm like, yeah, I take 20, 30 pills a day, drink every single day, you know, with a wine, beer, liquor, whatever. And so they obviously told me like, well, that's the problem here. And you know, you need to stop. And I stopped drinking for almost that whole year. But I kept taking pills. But I like tapered off a little bit. You know, this is me, that was a perfect opportunity to say, I need help because I don't know how to handle this. And I don't know what to do. But stubborn, prep, all the above, you know, the not being right. How are you even generating an income at this time? But at this point, it still had not affected my job. Yeah. Well, around that time is actually when it did start affecting my job. I was an insurance agent, an insurance broker. And I just kind of stopped going to the office. Like I would work from home kind of and do the bare minimum. I wasn't looking for new clients right around the time this was happening. I would check in with my assistant, like on an email and have her do some things for me. And the owners of the agency, like showed up at my house one day because they're like, you know, are you okay? Like no one's really seen you at the office. And you know, I bullshitted them and was like, yeah, you know, I'm in. I sneak in and out or whatever and done that and like, at that point, yeah, I caught up that I was, you know, my bullshit was only going to last so much longer. Yeah. Because a lot of people don't realize that's usually, you know, one of the last things that ends up affected, especially for men, is like our job. It's kind of like, well, when you start losing the job, it's like, oh, that's that's when shit's like really, really bad. Yeah. You know, I was a deceitful, drug addict alcoholic. Could tell a story to make, you know, family believe it. But yeah, so then it got to a point with those guys. They're like, all right, you know, this just isn't working out. Like, you know, if you're going to stay in the insurance business, like, you know, we're not going to, you can take your clients, you know, we're not going to fight you on that. You can have them more if you feel like you want to do something else. We could probably get another guy in the agency to buy your book. So I was convinced I just hated insurance. That was the whole problem. It wasn't the fact that I was addicted to pills and an alcoholic. It was just I hated insurance. So sold the book of business to a buddy of mine's brother that worked there and it was like, okay, cool. And then I went to work for a client who was a friend of mine, worked for him for like, helped him run his electrical contracting business for, I don't know, a year and a half, maybe two years. But guess what? He was on meth, I didn't even know it, but he was also a source for pills for me too. And so that was like, we got stuff done, but I was like, this is great. I can work with my buddy and like get fucked up. Get fucked up all the time. Like good is house and work from his house and like just sit there and drink vodka and take pills while I'm working. This is fantastic. And then that obviously just stopped working out because he was fucked up. I was fucked up. Yeah, so then I ended up getting a medical sales job, which I actually always wanted to get into that field just because of the money. Like I had a couple of friends and one of my cousins that are in that industry like selling medical devices that make a lot of money. And it's like, that sounds great. And so I got a job with a lab selling swabs. And I did the bare minimum of course, because my number one job was finding pills. And all these lunches and presentations at these doctors offices all around Fresno and even down into Bakersfield. But didn't do much follow up and get them to start actually using the product. And so eventually that caught up to me as well. And that was the first time I was actually like really fired. They just said you're not performing. I'm like, well I'm doing everything you guys said except you know getting the actual sales and like, well that's what a sales job is getting sales. When you see Joey, we need to generate the income. Exactly. So that was like in August I think of 2019 and got let go. First time fired and like wow, no health insurance and nothing. I didn't really know what to do. So I just didn't really say anything to anybody. Like I said, I was living with my mom. I still had like so many to pay for things and it's like, oh I'll figure it out and got up, got dressed like I was going to work every day. Because I worked from home with that job. It was an actual like remote job. And I just kept doing that. And I go help with some of the events that my dad was doing with the wine business and be like, oh yeah, you know, I told my boss that you know I'm cool. I got some extra time. Yada yada yada. And then that was like that lasted almost two months and that's when I was like, that was laying in bed one night with all these suicidal thoughts. And I was like, there's no way I'm going to do this. So I need help. And back in 1996, on my birthday, my 16th birthday, my dad paid to have my older cousin go to his, I think it was just third time in treatment. Because my aunt was like, I'm done. I can't do it anymore. And I went and visited him. And it was up in 12 in the county, a place called Mainers Recovery Center. And for some reason I thought of that. And I was like, I need to go where my cousin went. So I emailed him. I sent him this long email. I still have it like telling him everything that was going on. Because he's been sober ever since. He had like a two year relapse, like in like around 2009, 10. But he's been sober since like 2011 or 12 again. And I was sending him a big long email, but everything that was going on, everything that I was thinking about and all this. He's like, you need to find out. He's like, I'm absolutely going to take you. Make sure they have room. And he picked me up two days later. And on the way there, he's like, so he's like, we have to call your dad. Because you don't have health insurance and the place isn't free. All right. I was like, yeah, it's a good point. He's like, what are you going to do if he says no? I'm like, I haven't gotten that far because I don't think he'll say no. And he's like, well, he's like, I don't think he will either, but you've got to just be prepared. And I'm like, okay. And so we called him. I couldn't talk. I was like just borrowing, crying. And my dad like kind of freaked out, but he was like, yeah, I'll take care of it. Like whatever. And so that was a rough ride. But as soon as I got off, we got off the phone with him. My dad had called my mom. My parents had been divorced since I was like eight or nine. But I started getting text messages from my immediate family. Just all telling me they love me. So that night when I got to Maynard's in the morning, but that night was the first time that I can remember that my head at the pillow and I just went to sleep. It was like the way the world was lifted off my shoulders. And it was just crazy to me because I'm like, I'm not questioning my timing or anything, but I'm like, who would have known it was this easy? Yeah. Yeah, I think like you said, the pride, the ego, the, I don't know about you. I kind of shared something with my childhood stuff. I felt like a burden early on, you know what I'm saying? So like that lot of that carried through. And so for me, like any other addict, you know, hey, this, you know, okay, grab a can and there it goes. And that switch has been flipped. And it's just, where do you think like looking back, I mean, other than maybe you shared the, you know, cousin that addiction so potentially predisposition within the genes or family and so on. But like what, what was Joey kid? I mean, because you know, yeah, like you know, like, yeah, no, it's like, you know, I mean, where you, where you know addiction is fitness, right? And healthy living. And so much better, man. Yeah. But like as a kid, where you, did you feel like an outsider? Did you did the, your parents divorce have an impact on you in reflection? I mean, you know, because sometimes there's all that infighting between your parents with socks. Yeah. And I finally started therapy about two months ago. And that was actually like the number one thing I wanted to do when I got out of treatment. And I didn't like avoid it. It just kind of got put on the back burner and then COVID happened a few months later. And something was shut down. And then like I just didn't even think about it. And so I had some things happen recently that I'm like, okay, I need to figure out exactly what you just asked me. Or at least kind of try to figure it out. So I'm working on figuring that out. But yeah, I mean, my childhood was pretty good. Like we were a normal family. Like, I was growing up, I thought, oh, I thought we were rich and we weren't rich. But like, you know, we were spoiled, had everything we wanted. But yeah, my parents fought a lot, which is getting divorced. Like I said, when I was like eight or nine, but they co-parented before that was even a word as far as I can remember. Like, we were with our mom on the week, dad on the weekend. So guess what, weekends were a dad that was always party, fun, like whatever. He liked a party. But you know, he yelled a lot. Like I've mentioned, I think before we started recording, he's a real life Tony soprano. That's my dad. The full blood is out of that. Exactly. And he looks and sounds just like him. He screams like him, yells like him. But at the same time, he loves you. And it'll do anything for you. But that's saying, can you tell anyone what govagool actually is? I can't even give an explanation. It's like a sausage, just a mommy. Yeah, I'm got people that, what's gov, I'm like, I don't know, prosciutto or something like that. It's like a swammy that's just like spicier. It's funny to govagool people always. What the hell is it, googling it? Yeah, you can't spell it either, because I don't think it's spelled out sounds. What was that, the office? Yeah, give me the govagool. Yeah. Exactly. Sorry to say, man, I had to throw that one. No, absolutely. That's actually my dad's favorite one of those swammy. He was just telling me the other day he was eating it, because he went to New York last month and he brought a bunch of that stuff home. I'll be damned. Okay. And he's from there originally. But yeah, it was kind of traumatic, but it wasn't like a lot of verbal abuse, but that was just normal to us. It was normal to him, because that's the background where he came from. But looking at it now, it's like, yeah, that's probably not that people don't really talk to their kids like that, especially these days. But like, it was nothing like crazy trauma. Like, we weren't beat as children. Like, we were disciplined. My dad would spank us, smack us, whatever. My mom would spank us, smack us, but it wasn't abusive. It was like, yeah, you did something wrong. Like, back then, you got hit as a kid. But I've been trying to figure it out. I feel, I just don't really know, but I always wanted to have fun. And like I mentioned with my cousin, when I was 16, I was like, this is something that I'm always going to think about, because I don't want to end up being here where he is. And I'm not bullshit. Like, I literally told myself that, and then 23 years later, I was there. I didn't want to try any drugs in high school. Like, I tried pot and all that. I drank, you know. But I wanted to be the sober driver, because I got like a cool car when I turned 16, and I wanted to be the sober driver, and then I had occasionally drank, and then of course, got a little bit older, more drinking, more drinking. But I wanted to stay away from drugs, because I didn't want to end up like my cousin. And got tricked into trying cocaine one time when I was like, I don't know, my early 20s. Like, these guys, my two of my good friends, they're just bullshitting me, and they're like, oh, it's not cocaine, it's riddle in. You know, it's legal. Like, that's going to be weird. And we were drunk as hell, and I was like, okay, well as long as it's not cocaine, then I think it's okay. Yeah. You know, whatever. But tried that, and never really liked it. And then I ended up doing cocaine a few times, like in Vegas here and there, and it was always like when I was just like, really drunk, so it was just like, whatever. Yeah. Yeah, first time, and only time I ever did cocaine, we, whoever had the vial ended up spilling it on their lap. We're at this party. I mean, well to do people. So here it is, like this dude, he's got his hot wife. She snortened the line off my buddies, but essentially where dick would be. And I'm hammered, and I'm like, okay. And so my reflection of it was, I got paranoid the first time. Like I had a nice saline Mustang. We're in San Francisco. I'm peeking out the window, like every two minutes, like somebody's still in it. And I'm like, so I already paranoid, which I hate being paranoid. And I'm already doing this drug off of essentially someone's dick with just a layer of fabric covenant. Yeah, I don't think I'm gonna do that again. Yeah, it wasn't like a cool story. Like yeah, some strippers ask crack. Yeah, but yeah, but because he spilled it and here it is, this guy's wife that I believe even my, I would have to ask my friend. My recollection was he told me, hey, yeah, they're kind of in an open marriage, so be careful. And they were eyeing me up or something. And I'm like, okay, all this too much. Yeah, that could have been turned into a lot more. Yeah, I'll stick with the booze with the old guys that sit there, you know, whatever. So, yeah, now exactly, like that's, yeah, I mean, I look at it as like luckily, I was like, I didn't really like it. Yeah. And so like I said, a handful of times, but again, I was always a stay away from drugs. And then I, one time on a Sunday, probably around that same age, early 20s, I had a group of my buddies all lived together in a house, and we're like, hung over on a Sunday, I'll hang it out, watch them golf or something, and gonna have some beers. And one of my buddies was like, oh, here it is. I want you guys to take a vikin' in. And I'm like, tried that when I had my wisdom teeth pulled out and it made me sick. And he's like, yeah, just tried. And I was like, all right, whatever. And I took one and it was just like whatever. It made me really tired. And I was like, I definitely don't like those. And then again, fast forward like five, six years later, just one, two days laying in bed with a fracture or not fractured, a broken ankle and just popping those pills. Like, who would have known that I went from like saying, I don't like this. I don't want to do drugs to like, oh, I need this because I need the pain to go away because, you know, God forbid, I just lay in pain. Like, I'm gonna frickin' die or something. And then that was it. Yeah, that's tough. I don't know if it's irony per se, but the really scary thing about this disease, you know, and you're talking about it, like, by the time an ankle's broken, you're late 20s? Yeah. Okay. So, late 20s so brains fully developed at this point. For me, my alcohol is people don't believe, like, I was the guy that got people home in high school. I didn't drink. You know, dad was an act. I said the same thing. I'm never gonna do this. And then at about 22 coming out of my shell, I started working in radio and, you know, I want to talk to women at that point. And I was always usually, somebody I knew for a long time or women that hit on me, and I'm like, ah, I want to be a little more outgoing. And it's like, okay, here's the solution. Fast forward 26, 27, 28, you know, it started to get off to the races real quick. Yep. In reflection. Then I didn't think anything of it because I was around a bunch of people that seemed really normal. That's what we were all doing. Exactly. So, you know? No, for sure. That was exactly what I did. Like, all my friends, everybody would drink on Friday Saturday nights. Like, cool. For me, I don't know. Like in my mid 20s, it started, well, Thursday nights sounded like a good time to drink, too, because, you know, Friday is a little easier at work. You probably get out of there early. Like, when I was a state dollar beer night, we're gonna save some money. Yeah. So, we're from Friday Saturday and then Thursday Friday Saturday. And then it's like, ooh, Sunday night baseball's on. You like to cook. You get a couple, you know, people that hang out and cook a nice dinner and have some drinks. Well, shit, then the next thing, you're drinking every day. Yeah. And like, just like looking at it now, it's just like what? The lack of self-awareness, just in general, and to, I'm just like grateful as hell every day that I'm like, the blinders are off. Yeah. And like, I don't consider myself to be like this enlightened individual, but I think it was a certain degree. I kind of am, because we're all programmed to behave certain ways. And I was in treatment, I think it was the second day I was there. And like, we were going to the class. And that treatment center is fantastic, because there's no bullshit. There's no real downtime. But anyways, somebody mentioned like, yeah, we're gonna go into programming. I'm like, what, what do they call it programming? And then they're like, because we're all programmed. And so they're gonna like reprogram us. And I was like, bullshit, you can't program people. Like, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Well, then guess what, I started thinking about it all day every day for about the next week. And I realized every single behavior that we all have, we're programmed to think and act certain ways. And that's from the way we celebrate things, the way we handle, you know, sad situations, the way we just go about our lives and food choices, beverage choices, just in general like. It's not intuition that tells us to go to McDonald's and get a double cheeseburger and to go to in and out and to go here and there like, no, it's convenient and it's easy and it's in your face. Well, that's just the way our, you know, we got, like people forget we have the thousand year old piece of machinery sitting atop our body that is, it's got a really interesting reward system. And it will override your conscious thoughts, you know, our subconscious is strong and then people give it because the vast majority of what we do in a day, I forgive that's something like they say 98% of all actions are subconscious, you know, everything. Yeah, the way we, you know, the way we move, it's like natural for you to say, really raise your eyebrows or things you said to me, it's, this is all just stuff that it's, it's how we've developed over time. So, you know, people like us that I think it's, they say like 9% of people that they can have through studies say is that addiction gene or that addiction brain or whatever it is. I mean, our reward system learned us over time or as it's passed down with lineage, you know, it's, it's how it is in our body. I mean, I've tried to lift weights, eat like crazy, get to what yoked, don't work. I'm just like this. It just is. Yeah, that's just how it is. You know, I can gain some, but I'm not getting up to like a good two 10. It's just, right. Probably not naturally not going to happen, you know. I can't consume enough food. So, you know, we're built in a certain way. So yeah, with our reward system, I mean, we completely, you know, it's like, okay. You know, and the one drink was fine, but boy, my brain likes two, three, four, and it likes it with the pill and it likes it. And then eventually the brain just wants to take over and it's like, fuck what your body wants. You know, it doesn't, it doesn't, your reward system doesn't care about your heart, your kidney, your liver, your gut. None of it. It doesn't. It just wants to be like, ooh, more dopamine. More serotonin. Give me more of that. And we become so subconscious with our addiction. Like you're saying, you showed up at a hotel room. Some lady, you know, just whatever, gacked out of her mind. Some shady dude you've never met. You know, I don't know. I think that desire for that reward system, that's how strong it is to take over to just, you know, I mean, cause no, like, reflecting. I mean, we can minute now. Driven drunk. We have paid a price for it. Sitting here now, I'm like, I can't even fathom that I did that. Like how it was responsible for me to society and other people and my family and forget my own property in life, you know, and so it's just like, yeah, it's, it's how far our brain is. It's like, yeah, but I need another 12 pack. Yeah, no. Yeah, full on. So I, like I mentioned, I was in insurance for about 10 years, I ended up getting a, I always drove a trucker in SUV my whole life and then insurance driving around. I decided to get a Prius because I'm like, and I'm big. I'm like about 62. But that time I was probably like 250, 260 pounds and, you know, no muscles just fathom. And, but I fit in the Prius and I'm like, oh, 50 miles a gallon. That's great, right? So I don't know, I'm just assuming the reason I didn't get pulled over, get a DUI, all those years of driving around is because I don't know, maybe cops just don't look at the Prius. But, you know, I had mentioned before we started recording, you know, my cousins, the Fresno County District Attorney. Right. So I realized like after I got sober, I'm like, wow, like when I would go pick up this guy in a horrible area town, this guy who like had just been out of prison recently and go to the West Side of Fresno, which is not so good part of town. So he could go buy some pills from somebody he knows so he could get back in my car and sell them to me and then I got to take him on. I'm probably high end drunk at the same time while this is all going on. I'm like, not to mention, yeah, if I could kill somebody driving around and then like, what about this family stuff? Like if I got pulled over, like how does that look on my cousin? She's got to prosecute me, she can't do me any favors. But yeah, I drove, I wrecked my car once. I got distracted on in a neighborhood street and hit a trailer. I mean, it was only going like 15 miles an hour, but I hit the trailer kind of hard and messed up my car. I didn't stop. It was like 10 o'clock at night. Like why would I stop? Why would I let them know? Hey, I hit your trailer. No. I was drunk and drug addict and I went home and had my car taken care of. And so I think God, it wasn't a person or anything else. But yeah, I drove around loaded all day, every day and drunk quite often. But I was always trying to be like, okay, you're going to speed limit, you're driving straight, you're just going to go here just to get that, just justifying it. And it was like looking back at it, just like telling myself, you have no idea how lucky you are. I mean, you never, you did not kill anybody, most importantly. And you didn't get a DUI. Like you could have killed yourself, prison, whatever, all kinds of things. And I'm sorry for the long rant. But it was not going to let you say it. And it was like, yeah, because I was like justifying it and chasing the dopamine rewards and all that. Yeah. And we're just, and it takes a lot of work for us. I mean, let's talk more about that reprogramming process because it's work to rethink. Like, you know, like we were talking before we were recording. Like I had to change some of the stories that I told myself about things like with trauma, like that it was my fault as a kid or, or I was a burden or whatever, you know, I mean, it's crazy to ego, you know, I mean, I'm sure you've made people overly inflated ego. The greatest person on the planet, well, the person's like, I'm the worst piece of shit. You're just as bad. It's the same coin. You know, it's like, are you really, are you really the worst person? Are you really the greatest person, you know? Right. So it's, and I get, I would much rather be like Muhammad Ali than the self-deprecating person. It's just like, I'm not worth anything once I just go lay down and die. But you know, at the end of the day, it's, it's that association with stories about our lives and ourselves and everything else, you know? So yeah, let's talk that reprogram and like, what did they kind of go into and what really stuck for you? Well, I mean, like me, I realized I had like major self-esteem issues. I was more of like what you were just talking about. I feel like I thought I was a piece of shit. I really did. But I didn't realize it. Like I just, like I had like for some reason, all these just deep feelings that I was just worthless and no good and whatever and a wire and all that good stuff. And treatment a lot of the things just that clicked because I like convinced myself, just mind games myself that, okay, your emotions and the way you handle pretty much everything based on your emotions has gotten where you are. You're here because you need help. And so I just told myself, I'm like, everything I think I know is not right. Otherwise, I wouldn't be here. Whatever these people are going to tell me and ask me to learn and understand, I'm going to do it because they're here for a reason too. And that's to help people like me. And so I don't know. I kind of just started going on logic. Like I can't, I don't really have like a real example of reprogramming. I just bought into the idea that we are programmed to behave a certain way. So I just looked at it as like everything that I was doing, how I was living my life, how I handled situations, how I saw everybody else living their lives and handling situations. None of us were really doing it by choice. It's all learned behaviors that you learn from, you know, your friends or family, mostly from family, society, advertising, all that. Tells you this is what you're supposed to do and this is how you're supposed to act and this is like, it's an amateur fulfillment. This is yeah. And so, you know, I mean, every commercial or advertisement like around alcohol, for example, for the most part, if it's something awesome that happens, it's time to celebrate, you're supposed to get drunk. If somebody died and it's a horrible situation, you're supposed to get together, be sad and get drunk. Like that doesn't really make much sense to me. Yeah. It doesn't make anything better. No. That's a crazy thing about two people that like advertising works is because it does. I mean, you know, I can drive past from when I go to work there in Fresno at parents and addicts and need 15 boo signs on the way there, you know, at least. And it's like, you know, hey, this was this was the thing that was taking me down in life and I'm still getting advertised with the the chick with the big rack and then it looks like good fun or, you know, have, you know, have your bud light with your whatever sport you're watching that weekend. I mean, it's just so frickin' entrenched. And especially for guys we were talking before that like sports, I mean, watch a show with like watch a game. How much it's there, you know, it's constantly up in our face. Yeah. So yeah, these things that were sold, this is happiness, not just alcohol, but life in general. Yeah. It sticks up here. Like, like I was like really nervous once I left treatment about like just every scenario situation that I would be in and any activity I wanted to do. Like I'd never really done anything sober. Like I was an adult, it was always like, oh, there was always alcohol. Right. And I just told myself, well, whatever it is, like if you're uncomfortable situation, then you can just leave. Or, you know, you don't think it's going to be that fun. Well, you're not going to know unless you try it whatever it was. People guess what, every single thing that I went to and that I did was way more fun than it had been for years without the alcohol. So simple little things like that, like help me reprogram a brain because I'm like, wow, I thought all this time that I was supposed to get drunk and be high on pills to have a good time. It wasn't true. And I think a lot of people in social situations and whatnot, you know, most people don't have, most people are not alcoholics. But there's a reason they're drinking and that's because they don't want to be there. And somebody tells them, you know, I mean society just says, well, you're at this situation so you need to have some drinks. That doesn't make sense to me. So again, I don't go around telling people what to do. And I mean, we're in the wine business, our family, we sell wine, real wine with alcohol on it. I'm not about prohibition for anything, but like let's just actually inform people so they can make informed decisions. And you know, everything they've done for like drunk driving and all that stuff, like that's great, but like, believe me, I have no solutions to anything. This is just my idea. But it's like, instead of like telling kids that like alcohol and drugs are bad for you, they're going to kill you. Like actually explain it, like starting at whatever age, like it should be in the curriculum. No, you're right. A couple hours a week. I mean, the kids are in school for a long time. Start just letting them know just so they can decide when they become of age to consume whatever. They know what possibly can happen because none of us with this addiction gene, no we have the gene until when, until it's too late, you're right. So forget the addiction part. It's just like these are actually the long term health and consequences. The behaviors they can like whatever. I mean, that's that would be great to me. We should start doing something like that. 5150 is a lifestyle. We believe in pushing yourself, finding your passion, knowing your dreams and working hard and always striving to make those dreams your reality. We believe life is too short to sit back and say, what if go after it, grab it and make it happen. Being 5150 is committing to that long hard road. That road you know is going to be tough, but the most rewarding. That's living the madness. 5150. If you're living the 5150 lifestyle, then celebrate by rocking the goods. So listen up. There's a special deal for listeners of knock indoors down. Go to 5150LTM.com and enter code KDD20 and receive 20% off your purchase. That's 5-1-F-I-F-T-Y-L-T-M.com. I always have hard, have joking, say every school should have a 12-step program. And I don't mean it like I agree with you. Here's an A, but just those premises there. You want world peace? Yeah. I'll create the whole world with a 12-step program. Yeah, right? I'm serious. Oh, I agree. And I agree on that. I went and spoke at one of the local high school's couple weeks back. And that was my starter was, you know, I'm making it clear to you. I'm not against anything. I'm just sharing my story with you and the consequences of, you know, these chemicals is like 30 minutes, my story, 30 minutes, them asking questions. You know, I said the only thing I'm really against is like what's going on with fentanyl and being in everything. Just know it's in every, it's getting the drug supply for everything. And if you think in it like pots harmless, no, it's not like when you and I were in high school, it's like the THC kind of was crazy. Kids are having psychotic breaks with the amount of THC that's in some of this stuff. And I said, I'm just telling you, it doesn't mean it's going to happen to you. I'm just making you aware, you know. This is what I went through. These are what these things do, you know, I mean, like you're talking earlier about like suboxone, a common, you know, harm reduction thing, getting somebody out and, you know, the goal should always be a taper off. In my opinion, absolutely towards abstinence, what I believe in in some people long term. I mean, I'm talking to someone that was on methadone for like seven years and I'm talking a young person. It's like, why would you continue to want to be strapped and live in your same two block radius, you know, because you can't go anywhere with methadone. You forget your methadone, you're fucked. Yep. You go out of town. You know, you can't get in the suboxone too. If you forget it, it's a prescription, like you have, it's more accessible than methadone. But yeah, if you forget it and you go out of town or screwed. And like what you just said, like having your hand straps, like that's what, like I realized like when I got out of treatment, because like when I got there, they put me on, I don't remember what it was, some kind of medication to handle the alcohol withdrawal. Yeah. Would it be, it's okay. Go ahead. I'll probably come to me. I'm not going to be in suboxone, but guess what? It was for like three and a half or four days. Yeah. And like that was it. And when I got out of treatment, I was just like, I felt like I had handcuffs removed because I'm like, I don't have a pocket full of pills or a few strips of suboxone in my back pocket, like to go anywhere. And I have a friend of mine, and my brother's old friend, I hadn't seen in years, he ended up in prison. And he had been out of prison for probably less than a year when I ran into him at an A meeting, like right when I was at a rehab and he was a heroin addict. And he told me he was like on suboxone and he was kind of doing what I did. He was going from suboxone back to heroin back and forth. And then he, last I heard from him was December, he had six months of sobriety of this most recent December, but of total sobriety, no suboxone or anything. But like I was, he was having trouble understanding the idea of getting off suboxone. And I'm like, yeah, man, I'm like, you know, you got to do whatever you want to do. But for me, once I was just completely free, I'm like, you recently got out of prison, like that's what I imagine getting out of prison feels like is like literally not having to worry about like reaching for a bottle of fireball, the guzzle or a bottle of pills or a suboxone, just to function. Like just to not have to worry about that is like the most freeing thing ever. Yeah, well, and I think a lot of like he talked about this guy having trouble wanting to get off of that. I mean, the psychological factor of all this stuff, you know, I mean, you know, this is when it goes from usage to physical or chemical dependency and then the physical side of it all, you know, into full blown addiction. It's like psychologically, it's tough. Like even my dad will tease me when he'd go and visit and I'll, yeah, fizzy water or whatever it is. That's your new thing now, huh? It's like there's, there still is something about that motion, the crack and the can here and it's something carbonated, you know, it's all still there, you know, it's something that's a demon I gotta keep at bay. Yeah, I mean, I, I ball like if I see a prescription bottle on the counter or hear that shake, yeah, I still like see it like makes my ears perk up. Like I have literally zero desire to grab it, but like my mind goes, hmm, I wonder what's in there. And it was just like, because I mean, I used to have a prescription bottle, I don't know about that around and that tall and I could fit like 40 norcos in there. I could tell how many were in there by shaking it. Like I wouldn't even have to look at the bottle. I could just shake it and be like, hmm, I didn't have to start texting somebody to find some more soon. And so yeah, like that psychological part of it is, it's crazy. How do you maintain what the working in the wine business? How do you kind of keep your time? Like people, have you tasted this one? No, I have no. Yeah, like I, I've done two tastings like with one of our wine makers where like, I mean, this was recent just like in the last couple months where like the way you're supposed to taste wine, like put in your mouth, swish your arm and then like spit it out. And it didn't affect me at all except about, and like we tasted like three different wines and literally like an hour later though, I felt a little warm and I felt a little tired. Like I didn't feel like I was, I mean, I didn't drink it. But I was like, I don't know, maybe I ingested some of it. I don't know, but I'm like, I'm cool off of that. But like that was the first time I did it and I kind of needed to in this situation, but I could have gone without. But again, I'm not trying to drink alcohol. Like I think if I would have even swallowed that, no, I don't think I would have gone out and got drunk that day. But I'm not trying to, I don't want to ingest that shit because ethanol is poison. It's not for human consumption, but yet humans have been drinking it for thousands of years and they're going to drink it forever. But to answer your question, I just don't have any, I was so over drinking and taking drugs by the time I got sober that the obsession was long gone. My obsession at that time was like, I need help and need to figure out how to do this. And there's obviously no guarantee that I'll still be sober at the end of today. But that's my plan. But I don't know, it's just, I think full of God that I just don't really have any desire. So being around it and like, and I tell people, like when we're doing trade shows with the non-alcoholic line and the real one and we're doing tastings, and they ask me questions, I'm like, you know, explain it best they can with the real one. But I tell them, I don't drink. I quit drinking over three years ago and leave that for you guys. You guys look like the wine experts, not me. Yeah. Yeah, I had a situation, one of the MMA events I do ring announcing, now he's get like a tonic water with the lime. That way people leave me alone and don't try to, well, no, they brought me a vodka tonic. And of course, I took a big old swig in there. I pretty sure I spit most of it out. I'm freaking out. The ring girls are there. Like, are you okay? I'm like, they brought me a vodka and tonic. Oh, yeah, booze is gross. I'm like, no, I'm in recovery. Yeah. It's like, you know, texting my sponsors like, bro, you're okay. Yeah. You didn't break your time. You just wasn't on purpose. Like, how did the rest of the night go? I go, well, me and my head, I'm like, boy, if I finish this thing off, anybody that does know I have a problem, there are probably drinking here and I could probably totally get away with it. And so brought before I even got home to my kids and girlfriend and everything else. Well, I could really get away with it. And then it was like, but I'll do it again tomorrow. Yeah. I'm going to go for one drink or two drinks to 10, to not coming home to, you know, so he's like, hey, plate it out. You're good. Isn't that amazing how we can play that out in our heads though? We have to. Of course. I mean, that's a great thing. And I think there are so many people that are not in recovery or that don't even have a problem, they don't understand like that's how our brains operate. Yeah. Well, because we did, I think we did so much planning of how to get our stuff that know we have to have the alternative of how we're not going to go down that road again. You know, that's for sure. I mean, I'm sure yours, you know, mine was, I guess a little more simple because my drug of choice was sold at every convenience store as a simple as, okay, I can grab some on the way home or hide it in the trunk. Right. You know, when the kids go to bed, then I can go and I can have my, you know, my six pack or more, usually or whatever it was. But yeah, I think we have to put that same energy now into these, these little things, the reprogramming. Like you said, like for you fitness, man, I mean, you know, you're saying 250 pounds and it was obese and now, you know, I mean, damn man. Yeah. Now I'm a lot different. I don't need to throw my stats out there, but yeah, a lot different. But I started doing that just by like, I wanted to move around. Like I broke my ankle and started the whole thing with pills playing bass. I mean, I wasn't like in great shape then, but I was in decent shape and played basketball two, three times a week. So once that injury happened up in, for like 10 years, I didn't do really any physical activity. And guess why? Because I was always taking pills and then I was telling myself, oh, you don't know, maybe you'll have a heart attack if you try to exercise, taking the work of those, which, you know, just whatever. So yeah, I just started like, went to the gym just to like go do like 10 minutes of cardio and then like a few days later, I'm like, I'm going to lift some really light weights. And then the next thing, you know, just I was like, wow, I feel a lot better with this blood flowing and this and that. And I got gout really bad when I was drinking and then I actually got it when I was in treatment like the after a week of not drinking. I got it pretty bad there. So I'm like, okay, they say that, you know, that like red meat and shellfish and this and that and all this things that cause gout. So I'm like, I'm changing the way I eat. Not because I want to like slim down and get fit. It's because I don't want gout. And then I just noticed like eating really clean, which like people say like healthy eating, just like eating clean, it's not eating processed foods and exercising. I was like, and not obviously drinking and taking drugs and like, man, I feel really good. Like all those years chasing those drugs and alcohol thinking I was feeling good, just wake up and feel like shit and then do it again. Yeah, you can do this every day and like just feel good all the time. And so it just progressed from there that I was like, I'm really addicted to feeling good. That's why I'm an addict to begin with, I think. And yeah, I've just kept it going ever since and like now it's like every six weeks I do this in body scan where it like checks your body fat percentage and how much lean tissue you have and all this good stuff. So it's become kind of the challenge of self. And I think a lot of people don't understand or maybe they make that judgment because they haven't put the energy to go down the road of, you know, physical fitness changing their diet, you know, changing what they eat. I hate the word diet. Yeah, I don't like that word either. Yeah, it's like, we, you know, okay, whatever. Of that personal challenge, like this is this is you against you. People might go, okay, it's such vanity and what I know, no, that's a you against you thing. Yeah. No, for sure. It's not like vanity and actually, I mean, that's what I've been telling people for a while now. It's like it just goes back to that whole thing of feeling good and seeing everybody else around you just, you know, with their blinders on through life, just eating and drinking and consuming things that we really shouldn't be eating as the society and their own medication for this and medication for that. But like, just to feel way better than them is like, that's what has me doing this. The looks, that's just the bonus. This is the fact that like, I look, yeah, I mean, like, I had people that did a trade show in New York in February and like, four people over the weekend, one was like an older guy, like, he was telling me he was like, he rides his bike a lot. He's like, asking me, he's like, so after we got done talking about our wine, he's like, so what's like your workout program? He's like, you look like really good. I was like, almost fell down. I was like, really, do I? And like, three other people, like the two older women, like they weren't hitting on me. They're just like, asking me questions and like, telling me how good I look and this and that and a lady at Sprout's a couple of months ago, was last year sometime. I was standing there filling up like a gallon jugs of water. And this lady's just like, wow, she's like, I don't want you to think anything of this, but you are gorgeous. I'm like, wow, that's really nice of you. She likes Italian, maybe, I guess. But like, the whole point is, yeah, like, yeah, I guess, you know, you make your body look good, that's great. But to make your body look good means you're going to be feeling good. Well, and I think that the outward, and I didn't notice this like when you pulled up, it was, you know, this was our first time meeting in person, you had a nice smile, a nice presence, and there really is, I think all of that, it goes with it. And I think people subconsciously, you know, when you are around some man, woman, whatever it is that takes care of themselves. There's a different energy there. And I encourage anyone if they have a situation where they're interested in maybe going down a path of you or someone along that, or hell, I don't care what it is. I don't look at a guy that has maybe the Mercedes I want or something and go, you know, screw that guy or dad, but I go, hmm, if I have a conversation with them, I'm going to ask him, how did you do that? Right. You know, Jacob has knowledge, like, take it as an opportunity of knowledge, you know, I mean, that's what we do in recovery in general. Anyway, stick with the winners, right? Yep. You know, we don't latch on, if we're two months in, we don't latch on and try to ask the guy that's two days in for all the knowledge. We're there for them, but we're going to attach to the 5, 10, 20 year people, you know, to get that. And so, you know, for me, it's like, now I'm curious who like I am. What's the diet? Okay, maybe I do sell myself short. Maybe I can re-get up to 2, 10, you know? Yeah, I think you could. So, I think it was tough. It's a cool vacation. I can tell you that. Oh, I was when I, I don't always the listeners time. Now, it's a fun story. So, gentlemen, still a good friend of my natural bodybuilder, him and his wife, fitness, and when I was in Monterey, they owned a max muscle supplement stores and I have a great clothing line too. And yeah, he, whatever reason, took to it. And man, my, like, I was pensioning like, I don't know, like, 80 pounds, like nothing, you know? And so, my strength really went up. And I was eating like 4,000 calories a day. I mean, I was packing it in. And I think I gained 10 pounds in six months. Wow. Now, granted, any of the fat that I did have went away quick. Right. I'm just, I'm an ectomorph. I'm built that way. I can burn it off. But yeah, like the actual, like, putting on muscle. Oh, I mean, you, like, strength went up. My energy was up. You know, you could, definition was nice, but yeah, building muscle. Oh, yeah. It takes a long time though, but yeah, it sounds like, yeah, like my body's the opposite. Like if I started eating 4,000 or 5,000 calories a day, I mean, like, even if I'm still training every day, like, I do, I guarantee you, the fat would just kind of start coming back. Yeah, it's crazy. That's hard because that's, but it takes a long time. So I could show you, like, a picture, like a small transformation from, like, March to November of last year, where I lost, like, 36 pounds. And my body fat went from, like, 18% to, like, 5 and a half. But I gained a lot of lean tissue though. And so it's crazy, but it's hard. But it's fun and it feels good. And I go to the gym usually, some, for a while there, it was, like, at about 3 a.m. And then the last few months, it's been closer to, like, 3.45 or 4. But when you sleep by 6, yeah, I go to bed about 6.30, trying to be asleep by 7.30 or 8. Oh, God, I envy you. But I tell everybody that I'm like, I can do that because I'm not married. I don't have kids. So I get it when everybody else in my age, you know, my friends, they've got kids playing baseball at 7 a.m. Clock at night and I'm like, fast asleep. So I get it and you gotta get up and go to work and all that. But, you know, you just find something that you like. Like, I was riding my bike a lot during COVID when that started. I was riding anywhere from 20 to 30 miles five days a week. But then I got into, like, the strength training and building muscle and so on. And that kind of changed how I do things, but it's fun. Yeah. What I think it helps me stay sober too. Well, let's talk because I just didn't, but for me, we've talked about this, like, non-alcoholic, you know, I forgot about it. Like beer, wine, whatever, not a trigger for me, not a trigger for you. So we are going to enjoy some of you. Did bring some of your wine. The CBD infused? Yeah. So, like I mentioned, right around the time I got sober, my dad wanted to put CBD in the real wine. I had a quick conversation with the ABC. They said, I'm a trickier kid. I'm a trickier kid. I'm a trickier kid. I'm a trickier kid. I'm a trickier kid. I'm a trickier kid. I'm a trickier kid. Yeah, we've been doing this. This is our third generation. Fourth one will be working on soon. But yeah, we take our real wine, have the alcohol removed down to less than 0.25%, which is less than mouthwash. Yeah. So I've never really pushed this, and I still not, like, on the recovery community because there is CBD and CBG in here. Right. But it's 100% hemp. There's 0.000% THC. So there's no mind altering substances to it. What's CBG? CBG is kind of what they call the mother of all cannabinoids. Oh, OK. So it's basically a simple way to say that kick starts how CBD works. And it has the same properties as CBD, really anti-inflammatory. But they do say CBG. And again, this is just what they say as in people that haven't done funded researching because it's not allowed by the government. And we're not able to really say what this supposed to do, but they say that CBG may actually help cells regenerate and heal the body. Whereas CBD is just anti-inflammatory, like, Advil on steroids. Yeah, I've used some bombs and different stuff, and I've had gut issues. And so I've taken some different oral stuff that it seems to actually really help with the inflammation. Yeah, for sure. And so they say the CBG actually like heals the body. How much healing it does? I don't really know. But I do know that this, it's low calorie, low sugar. So that's another avenue we're going with it. It's like a health and wellness beverage. And it like really does for me, like from the neck down, you feel like really just like good and relaxed in like 10, 15 minutes. We do trade shows where we sample and we sell it like at a discount. We've had countless people over the last couple of years that they try it. And they say it's pretty good. I like it. Well, I'll just buy it online because I don't want to carry it around. And I can't list people that come back in less than 20 minutes and buy it there because of like that stuff actually works. I feel really good. And I'm like, heck yeah, I'm like, you should take it out to dinner with you instead of having wine. Take this. I mean, they probably wouldn't even charge a corkage fee because there's no alcohol. Yeah. Do you guys run into because of the CBD in it, in any states you can't ship to in things of that nature? We cannot send it to I think the two decotas, South Dakota and North Dakota. And I think maybe Nebraska, other than that, I think we're okay. We have a company, a marketing company that we work with that their whole thing is cannabis. So they're all about making sure our website's compliant. And they're the ones that we rely on to follow the rules and the law and like where we can ship it and things like that. And so I think yeah, just the decotas and maybe Nebraska. Okay. Whoops. As I'm spilling on my table here and we get to think it's really good. Yeah, and it's different because you could take, you know, the most expensive award-winning wine and remove the alcohol. Totally going to change the way it tastes. Yeah. Then when you infuse it with hemp, that's obviously really going to change the way it tastes. But for me, I've been sober for over three and a half years now. This rosé is my favorite. The sangria we sell the most of. The sangria should be sweeter the next batch will be, but it's really fruity. But the rosé to me, I mean, it almost tastes like I'm drinking wine. Yeah. It's really good. And like I said, it gets you relaxed. For people that are into mocktails, I mean, this is the way to go. It says you can mix this with some club soda or whatever and put some fruity stuff and all that. But if you just feel like having a glass of wine without getting drunk, you're still getting, you know, feeling relaxed, you know, crybabywine.com. Well, and like I was telling you, I, you know, go to some places like, yeah, I'll just make sure I have something on my hand. So I just, I'm past the point of like, I'm good at the no thanks or I'm good, but it's one of the people ask. It's just nice to have something just be like, okay, leave me alone. Yeah. Yeah. Like last summer, my cousin, little cousin's eighth grade graduation. I brought a couple bottles of the CBD wine to the restaurant, had it on ice and went and got a wine glass and filled it up and I'm standing there, be using with somebody in my aunt. She's going to be 80 next month. She comes up to me and she gives me this crazy look and she's like, what are you drinking? And I just kind of smiled and laughed and like was twirling it around. I'm like, it's just the CBD wine. She's like, oh my God. Thank God. I forgot about that. Okay. Good. I'm drinking alcohol. Yeah. Well, we'll put the link in the podcast description to people want to check it out and tell them. Yeah, let them know you heard it here. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, we're going to put a discount code on there for you. So that's good. KDD will get you 20% off. Wow. KDD. I got to ask before we jump into random questions, you know, you brought up, yeah, not Mary, no kids. Sober dating. That's a good one. There's a fucking nightmare, isn't it? For me, no. So like I got on Bumble, like in May, I think, or April, like I've been sober for only like six months, you know, they say you're not supposed to be getting relationships, your first year or whatnot. And I didn't think anything was going to come of it. Just I was like, I'll screw it. I'm going to check it out. And long story short, I actually ended up meeting a really, really great couple of great women. And we dated for like two and a half years. So I mean, we just stopped seeing each other a few months ago. And no, for no bad reasons or anything crazy, just sometimes things just didn't. Yeah, it just ended one of the sweetest, nicest people I've ever met. And like my mom is still like friends with her. Like again, no animosity, nothing. But so it was like cool. Like it was weird at first for me because I was like, I'm not just going to come out and say, oh, I'm in recovery for six months. Right. But if I didn't want to hide it either, but it got brought up and like maybe on her second date, and I kind of just went in to told the really short version of my story. And then she tells me she's like, oh, she's like my brother just got sober from pills too. Like he's been sober for like a year or something at the time. And I would just say if I had to give somebody advice about sober dating, you know, find a way to bring it up and let it be known. And I can promise you that if anybody, whether it's in dating or just anybody in general, is going to judge you for your past and for you trying to improve yourself, you don't want to deal with that person period. Like just say nice seeing you, have a nice life. And but yeah, I mean, I wouldn't definitely don't hide it. Yeah. But it's hard to bring it up. Yeah. For me, it was the most important thing I didn't realize that the shittiest, the most lacking area of my recovery was boundaries. And so once like I started to make boundaries really clear, like I, you know, I went on this one date and I made it clear, pre-hint. I will, this is how I date because I want you to understand you may not be the only person, the only woman that I'm dating. I will pick you up. We'll go. We'll get to know each other. We'll have a nice time. I will take you home. I will drop you off. There won't be no kiss, no hand holding. None of that. I said all that stuff for a guy like me, especially with some sex and love addiction history too, having done work there. It clouds my vision of things. So I'm like, and it could cloud yours. And a lot of people, you know, the new thing, the butterflies. And again, the dopamine, we get a lot of dopamine out of, you know, so, and boy, there was a lot that didn't like that because it was like it was the challenge to change my mind about my boundaries. So there was a, I wouldn't say a lot. We were like four or five first dates. It was just like, oh, yeah, there's too much for them. Yeah. Then my girlfriend now, luckily, it was, we had known each other a while and I'm like, this is, this is how it is. She's on board, she, you know, straight edge doesn't have an issue, but she never explored it to get to the issue. She's just like, I've seen and she's one of those people. I'm like, I was like, I saw it. I'm not going down that road 20 years later. Shit, I went down that road. So it's tough, man. That's, yeah, that is. But in like now, I'm in a relationship with someone else's in recovery. She's in the fitness. She's actually a trainer. And she's great. And she's been sober, I think, about the same amount of times, me and me a little bit longer. But it's, I don't know, like at first, when I first got sober, I thought like, yeah, you probably shouldn't be in a relationship with someone else in recovery. But then getting to know this woman and talking to her and things like that, it's just like, you know, you have like a strong connection with somebody that's in the same, you know, situation as far as recovery is concerned. And, you know, they're committed to keep improving that throughout their life and they're committed to staying in recovery. And you got a lot in common with them. Like that's a pretty powerful bond. Yeah. Because then you know that, and we've had these conversations that you have each other's back. Like, you know, something crazy is going on in your life or whatever. Let's talk about it. Yeah. Because we both know from experience that the longer you hold something in, the more it starts eating you, the more it starts clouting your mind and polluting your mind and start thinking about things a different way and possibly making bad decisions down the road. You know, who knows? Yeah. But like, so yeah, I know it's nice. It's fun. It's interesting. But I mean, hey, when it comes to relationships and just everything else in life for me and my recovery, my recovery comes before everything else. Yeah. Because I won't have a relationship. I won't have a job. I won't have a home and the craziest part about being in recovery and being 43 next month. I keep realizing every cliche that you heard as a child that some adult told you as you were growing up, they weren't cliches. They were truth. Yeah. And they're not bullshit. And you know, we all think we know better than everybody else, especially when we're young and like teenagers. And it's like, no, like they were actually telling us that stuff because they just wanted you to get it. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, I'm probably a lot of it and I think now's an adult is the look, trust me, you'll get it someday. You know. Yep. No, that's the best one. Sooner the better. Yep. Oh, man. No, thank you for that. And I just wanted to, you know, get your perspective and kind of share it. I have not really had that conversation with someone else about, you know, that process. Yeah. Because I see a lot of people still struggle with it. I know, lady, you know, God, six and a half years sober. And it's still just like I try the dating and it's, you know, it's a tough area. It is. And like my, it's my girlfriend that I was with for two and a half years. She drank, but she didn't like really drink that much. Sure. And then like, I don't know, maybe six months into our relationship. Her and one of her friends, they went out on Halloween and they got fucked up and they both woke up the next day and said like, I'm not drinking anymore. And her friends been sober from alcohol ever since. And my old girlfriend, she, like, you know, had a few cocktails like on each holiday. Sure. Not getting drunk, not partying, whatever. And so like, if you're, you can find someone who they don't have to be in recovery and don't have to be sober, but it would probably be very hard. I don't think I could do it. Being in a relationship with somebody who was like a drinker. Oh, yeah. No, I mean, a statistic show, if you like, let's say you have one person goes, gets treatment or whatever it is, gets sober and the other doesn't that relationship or fail or that person will go back. That's just the way it is. Yeah. It just is because it's that too much of that environment. I had to learn that too. You know, getting to know different people and, you know, one in particular, I just came to that realization like, you know, and it wasn't like a crazy drinker or whatever, but there were a couple of situations where it's like, yeah, I'm not, I'm sorry. This isn't going to go anywhere. Yeah. I know that you're in and I know maybe for you, it helps you relax and now you're being flirty, but for me, it's an altered reality thus, sorry. You know, so I just learned that I'm like, I don't want to be involved with someone that drinks just for me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think so too because our online sales for our CBD one in January and February were like crazy, like they, like dipped in March because they were up so high in like January and, in February, which, you know, we literally was just like, because of dry January is the only thing conclusion we could come up with. And so yeah, I mean, I, again, people can drink all they want, do whatever they want. Just if we could help inform people, educate people to make informed decisions is really the goal. And I mean, I just wish the government would like, you know, help out with that, but you can't really trust them to do anything or rely on them to do much. So yeah, I'll know. But like, yeah, it's just, I wish that there was a way just to help people make informed decisions. I'm with you. That's a whole another podcast and trust me. I can do it. I'm feeling you could too, because as I say, you know, I forget how it was worded somebody that I work with from time to time. And it was like, well, I don't believe the government would do that. I'm like, what fucking country have you lived in? I mean, were you even around for the last three years? Like really, you know, or, you know, media is narrative. Yeah. And on a really dumb down level is our CBD wine, for example, it's not federally legal state by state. Like you said, you can go see 15 billboards and see a liquor store in every fucking corner and walk in there and buy alcohol that'll get you drunk as hell. Can kill you can get you in a car accident, kill people. But the federal government says that you can't have this, which is not in mind altering substance, which most certainly will not kill you or cause you some kind of disease. It may or may not like have some beneficial properties, but it's most certainly not going to kill you or harm you. But the federal government says you can't have that. The fuck kind of clown world is this? We're still attached to the war on drugs, which is a failed thing. And if people really educate themselves in it is, is you realize is a big long bruise and it continues to be. Yeah. I know. Yeah. Because I'd see, you know, I mean, anyway, again, oh, I'm not a podcast and we probably get burned up. So, hey, it's time for some random questions. Course brought to you by 52150LTM. Couldn't do the podcast without them. Click the link in the podcast description. Use KDD20 and get 20% off year-round. Of course, always watch for specials. They got the summer special coming up as the weather's changing. I guess we're going into spring, not so much summer, but got all those specials all the time. So check it out. All right. If you could play anyone superhero, who would you want to play? It's like, be somebody's superhero. Yeah. Like so, if you were a pre-existing superhero, like, you know, and you were, say an actor and you got to do it, play the role of a superhero. Which superhero would I want to be? Yeah. Oh, God. Superman, I guess. I can do it all. Yeah. All right. I just had to ask. I never thought about that before. Well, these are challenge. These are, joy, these are the real life questions. I know. I got that. This is changing the world. Stranding on deserted island, you could have one movie and one music artist's greatest hits. What are the? One movie would be probably Caddy Shack. Classic. Musical artist. He's dead, but like sublime. Oh, that'd be cool. Yeah. That'd be a good, good greatest hits. It's kind of go all over the place depending on the mid-juran. They got a little bit of slow stuff, you know, more of it's ramped up, but like, you're kind of really speaking because we're about the same age from like our younger years, for sure, the sublime and Caddy Shack. I still open them all the time, sublime. Oh, yeah. Caddy Shack, definitely a lot of memories of watching a movie I shouldn't have as a kid. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I grew up watching it in appropriate age, but it was, it's funny. Wow, classic stuff. Pet peeves. Stuff that just annoys you. I don't really get road rage, but it really just annoys me that people just don't know how to drive. Yeah. Like that just really just, because I drive a lot. So every day, just people pull out in front of you. They're turning on a red when you have a green, like that's my biggest pet peeve. Yeah. Oh, my favorite one is, so we're at a lot of freeways. It's the people that get on the freeway at like 40 miles per hour. That's right. That's one A or one B peeve. It's like, can we just bring the speed up just a little bit? Just a scoosh. My God. All right. Last artist that sticks out then, last song. Oh, actually, though, I think it's called The Spins by Mack Miller. Okay. My girlfriend likes that. Like that guy. So I'd never really listen to him until recently. And I was like, that's a really good song. So we kind of, I kind of actually intentionally put that on when she's in the car. All right. We get some points, too. Yeah. Gotta get some points. Tell me about maybe like we both like music, maybe a unique concert situation or something you've been to. Frank Sinatra. Franky, baby. Yeah. Frank Sinatra. You do have the Italian dad, don't you? Yes, sir. So yeah, we were in Vegas. And like my dad took us there. My sister was probably seven. I was like 12. My brother's 13 and Frank Sinatra was playing at the MGM Grand. I think I still have the ticket somewhere, but yeah, we stayed in extra night. So he could take us to see Frank Sinatra. My stepmom took my sister to go buy like a dress. My dad took my brother and I had to go get like suits or sports coats or something. But you know, growing up and driving around with my dad all the time and him listening to Frank Sinatra, we liked it. And so like still, that was actually the best concert I've ever been to. I've been to a lot of concerts because it was just really cool of being young. Not to kind of music anybody else. You know, really listens to. And he was old at that time, but it was pretty awesome. He's still Frank up there, right? That was Jack Daniels on his second. He's sacred at the whole time, right? Yeah. I mean, Frank was great, but there's a lot of bullshit he said too. Oh yeah. All right. This is a floor, George. Any advice or knowledge you want to drop? Maybe somebody is struggling. Maybe it's a loved one. They have the struggling or just, you know, just in general for me. I know the only, I have no regrets about like how I got into recovery or the extra time that it took. But if the only thing that's holding you back from asking for help is that you're embarrassed or ashamed, just ask for help because every single time I tell somebody in recovery and I volunteer that information a lot. And I throw out how long it's been. I mean, like, and it's not because I'm bragging. I just feel like if I'm going to bring it up, I'm just going to say it. I get people stop me from talking to interrupt me to tell me, congratulations. That's awesome. So and it feels really good, but especially when it's a stranger that you don't know, like they're not bullshitting you because that's not your initial reaction. This is a congratulations to somebody usually. So like I think it's genuine. So my point is is that yeah, if you are struggling and that's the only thing holding you back, I just ask for help because I tried to do it on my own multiple times over like a seven year period couldn't do it. And just ask for help and just want to do it because I mean, if I can recover and anybody can, I promise you that. This is the Nakhendor's down podcast featuring celebrities, experts, and everyday people who have overcome adversities, including addiction, mental health, and trauma to live purposeful lives. That's what Nakhendor's down is all about.